Author Topic: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?  (Read 2495 times)

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Offline jfrabat

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Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« on: March 20, 2008, 02:49:04 PM »
From what I know from other engines, having roller rockers typically is a good thing, as it reduces friction, wear, and frees up a couple of Pony's (although typically less than the manufacturers' claim!).  I just wanted to know your opinions on these...

http://www.quadratec.com/products/51103_501.htm

I guess like many other mods to the 4 banger, by itself it will not do much, but combined with other stuff, it should make a positive impact...

Felipe

'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline oldjeep

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2008, 02:51:39 PM »
Seems odd that they go through all the trouble of coming up with a kit but don't include studs and nuts so that you could actually adjust them properly.
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

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Offline jfrabat

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2008, 03:21:49 PM »
The stock rockers dont have any adjustments either.  From what I have read, to install them, you:

  • Bring the 1st cylinder to top dead cenre
  • Remove the old rockers, pivots and bolts
  • Install new rockers and tighten them up to "Zero Free Play" (basically until you cannot easily turn the pushrods with your fingers) and then tighten them up to 25 ft/lbs (which should take half to 3/4 of a turn of the screw; anything more, and you need to add spacer washers supplied in the kit)
  • Repeat for next cylinder

As far as I know, the YJ uses hydraulic lifters, so studs and nuts for adjustment should not be necessary if the same stock geometry is used...
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline oldjeep

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 03:36:50 PM »
The stock rockers dont have any adjustments either.  From what I have read, to install them, you:

  • Bring the 1st cylinder to top dead cenre
  • Remove the old rockers, pivots and bolts
  • Install new rockers and tighten them up to "Zero Free Play" (basically until you cannot easily turn the pushrods with your fingers) and then tighten them up to 25 ft/lbs (which should take half to 3/4 of a turn of the screw; anything more, and you need to add spacer washers supplied in the kit)
  • Repeat for next cylinder

As far as I know, the YJ uses hydraulic lifters, so studs and nuts for adjustment should not be necessary if the same stock geometry is used...

LOL  I know that there are no adjustments, that's the way cheap valvetrains are put together.  Unfortuately it gives no way to compensate for the wear that occurs in the rods and lifters.   Usually when someone offers an aftermarket rocker set for a non adjustment engine, they include studs and nuts to replace the non adjustable stock bolts.   The zero free play method of setting rockers is a good starting point, but you need to be able to run the motor while doing the fine adjustments.
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

www.oldjeep.com

Offline jfrabat

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2008, 07:52:54 PM »
Good point; but even so, this should be an improvement over stock rockers, as friction would be reduced, and thus, wear, which in turn would cause the rocker to be less out-of-whack than the stock one, right?
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline oldjeep

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2008, 09:16:33 PM »
Good point; but even so, this should be an improvement over stock rockers, as friction would be reduced, and thus, wear, which in turn would cause the rocker to be less out-of-whack than the stock one, right?

Maybe.  I'd be curious to know if they have done any dyno tests to see how many HP you get for $300
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

www.oldjeep.com

95yj4

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2008, 09:57:58 PM »
I bet you'd get a whole whopping 2HP from these! :dance:  But yeah its nice for the reduction of wear for a longer period of time but you cant adjust them. I would have to really think about it for a while before I grabbed em.

Offline jfrabat

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2008, 07:09:29 AM »
In theory (and I am not sure this applies to THESE rockers, but Yella is well known in the high-performance world with mustangs and such) the stamped rokers tend to have some error in measurements (like, a normal 1.5 rocker will ussually be around 1.47 or something like that).  While that does not sound like much, when you look at the valve opening, it can translate to some significant power loss, that you would regain with a rocker that has the exact measurements.

Also, you get some ponies freed up from friction reduction, which also lowers the engine's operating temperature.  The reduced friction should be specially noticeable for accellaration (in theory).  The rocker design should also cause less oil foaming, which also results in better cooling.  Theoretically (although I would not recommend it for a Jeep), this means that you could restrict oil flow, and still get the required lubrication, which again (again, this is all theoretical) would release some more ponies.

On the long run, you would also get less wear of the rocker and valve stem, which means that the valve aperture would stay the same (or very close) to the originally set values.  Also, because of the rocker, you should get less valve guide wear because the lateral forces that a traditional rocker places as it slides are reduced so much.  And last but not least, the rocker itself is much stronger, which should mean less possibility of breaking it (or the possibility to use stiffer valve springs if you chose to go in that direction).

I dont know; they seem to be a good upgrade to me...  Granted you, they are not cheap, but I think with all the money I invest inthe Jeep to get more power, it does not seem unreasonable.

I bet you'd get a whole whopping 2HP from these! :dance:  But yeah its nice for the reduction of wear for a longer period of time but you cant adjust them. I would have to really think about it for a while before I grabbed em.

It would probably be in the 3~4 range I estimate, but considering the HP of the 2.5L in the first place (about 110~120), this is not bad (2~3%).  As I said, by itself, not something noticeable, but combined with the 4.0L TB, TB spacer, improved ignition, e-fan, cat-back, etc. the small % keep adding up...

I'd be curious to know if they have done any dyno tests to see how many HP you get for $300

Yeah, I was looking for that on the web, but could not find it...  I did find a guy with a strocker that installed these, and he was happy with them and said that the engine ran much smoother and quiet with these on (and a tighter engine ussually means less HP lost in slack).  But I would like to find something more scientific...  As I said before, though, I would not expect more than 3 o 4 ponies, though.

Anyway, thanks for your opinions!

Felipe
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2008, 01:01:28 PM »
There are a few companies that make roller rockers that will work on the Jeep.  Mopar/Hesco's, Harland Sharp, and Yello Terra.  Yello Terra is an Auzzie company if I remember right.  They are also the only company that makes different ratio rockers. They are also the only ones that I've seen that don't require raising the valve cover up for clearance. They have the 1.6:1 as well as the 1.7:1 available.  I was told that you can order either from any reseller.  I think the 1.6:1's are stock.  The 1.7:1's would be interesting though.  Similar to a cam swap without having to pull the engine apart.

Oh and the Harland Sharp are only $10 more and you get 4 extra rockers.

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Offline jfrabat

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2008, 01:05:35 PM »
There are a few companies that make roller rockers that will work on the Jeep.  Mopar/Hesco's, Harland Sharp, and Yello Terra.  Yello Terra is an Auzzie company if I remember right.  They are also the only company that makes different ratio rockers. They are also the only ones that I've seen that don't require raising the valve cover up for clearance. They have the 1.6:1 as well as the 1.7:1 available.  I was told that you can order either from any reseller.  I think the 1.6:1's are stock.  The 1.7:1's would be interesting though.  Similar to a cam swap without having to pull the engine apart.

Oh and the Harland Sharp are only $10 more and you get 4 extra rockers.

I may be mistaken, but I thought stock were 15:1...
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline oldjeep

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2008, 01:12:26 PM »
I may be mistaken, but I thought stock were 15:1...

15:1 ?  That would be one really long rocker arm.
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

www.oldjeep.com

Offline jfrabat

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2008, 01:13:25 PM »
sorry, typo; 1.5:1
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline oldjeep

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2008, 01:15:27 PM »
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

www.oldjeep.com

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2008, 01:26:48 PM »
sorry, typo; 1.5:1

No, they are 1.6:1.
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Offline jfrabat

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Re: Roller Rockers for the 4-banger?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 08:30:31 PM »
Well, I droped a set in today; I'll let you guys know how good they work.  So far, my butt-dyne did not feel any difference, but I guess the mpg will, so I'll keep you all posted.  I did this mostly thinking it would lessen the noise in the valves, and to a degree it did, but not as much as I was expencting.
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost