Topic: The dilemma: Rockcrawler v Expedition

[Jeffy]

I think your tire size/brand really depends on where do you want to go
exploring. Size 16 rims are not that popular outside the U.S. A few years
 ago we were on the south of Argentina and we went through our 2 spares.
 Nobody had tires for 16" rims. We had to order them from Buenos Aires
 and paid like 350 dollars for some crappy firestone tires, each one.
 If it were my jeep I would go with 15" rims, a world known tire brand like
 BFG and a tire size that's available anywhere like 31" or 33" at most .
I think you will also need to improve the stock electrical system of the
jeep with something like a dual battery setup, one for the engine and one for everything else,  and a current converter from 12V to 110V, after all you will be relying on the jeep to use and charge all
electrical devices you might want to take with you, laptop, gps , camera,
navigation devices, etc.  I guess air conditioning (with a good filter!) would be useful while traveling through dusty desert roads, and a good heater that will allow
you to sleep inside the jeep with -22 degrees celsius outside (personal experience).

You'll need a good electrical cooler/freezer, I think ARB has some pretty good ones.

That's all that comes to my mind right now..I hate mondays!   
Hope this post is well written, I hate posting through the phone.

Hmm, interesting, I would have thougth 16's would have had a stronger following around teh world as Land Rovers Defenders have been using 16's for a while now.  That is a big consideration though.  One of the reasons for going with 33's is that they are still more of them out there then 35's and up.  At least when you exclude trailer queens.  Not to mention, Expedition vehicles tend to be truly 50/50.

Twin batteries?  That's in the plans.  I don't need a new alternator since mine's already 170A.  I already have a GPS mounted in the Jeep.  I don't normally run a Laptop but I've been wanting to add a DC/AC Converter for years now.  Just haven't had the time.  I would like AC BUT the problem is room in the engine compartment.  If I keep the engine as it is, I can mount the compressor in the OE spot.  If I SC it, that would change things.  AC would really be nice for desert runs though.  Even driving through the central valley is a PITA.

Where do you go for expo style wheeling in the US? What comes to mind is the Mojave Rd, Dusy thou its a cross between expo and rockcrawling, same for the 'Con. I have heard there was a road that goes from San Diego to somewhere in AZ.

Expedition can be anywhere really.  The Rubicon was rediscovered by an expedition group and not rockcrawlers.  There is also the Trans American Trail as will as the Pony Express route.   Even old route 66 when it sort of disappears.  PNW and Alaska really come to mind.  Although there are also places in Montana and Wyoming as well.  I'd love to head down the Baja coast line.  A bunch of my friends do it every year for the 1000.  I'm not sure if I'd want to be working though.   

[neale_rs]

Where do you go for expo style wheeling in the US? What comes to mind is the Mojave Rd, Dusy thou its a cross between expo and rockcrawling, same for the 'Con. I have heard there was a road that goes from San Diego to somewhere in AZ.

4Wheel Drive and Sport Utility Magazine publishes great articles on expedition and exploration style 4 wheeling.  There is a actually quite a bit to be done in the US.  Colorado has a lot too.  And you could also come to Mexico, there are some amazing multi day dirt track tours that can be done here.

[jfrabat]

Hmm, interesting, I would have thougth 16's would have had a stronger following around teh world as Land Rovers Defenders have been using 16's for a while now.  That is a big consideration though.  One of the reasons for going with 33's is that they are still more of them out there then 35's and up.  At least when you exclude trailer queens.  Not to mention, Expedition vehicles tend to be truly 50/50.

In Panama and Costa Rica, you can still get both 33 and 35's in the capital cities (San Jose and Panama), but outside of that, you can only get 33's (and not in all the small towns).  If you truly want to go with a tire available everywhere (including very small towns), you would need to drop to a 31" (and if it is Latin America you are talking about, a 265/70).

As for 15 or 16 size, the new Toyota HiLux Pickups all come with 16" wheels, so getting an R16 tire should not be all that difficult (as long as you dont mind going to metric, it should be available in most major towns).  I know the HiLux comes in either 265/70 (also the stock setup for the Fortuner, which is also popular around here) or 205 from the factory depending on what you buy, and since that is the best selling pickup in both countries, I am sure you would find tires for it almost anywhere...

In fact, even the Landcruiser 70, which is still popular in Panama comes with 16 inch wheels, so at least down here, R16 would not be that much of a problem (also, Costa Rica sells almost as many Land Rovers as all the rest of Latin America combined, so with so many Defenders here, R16 again would be readily available).

Anyway, just input from my side of the world, should you ever head down this way to explore (and if you do, make sure to give me a heads up!).

Felipe

[Jeffy]

In Panama and Costa Rica, you can still get both 33 and 35's in the capital cities (San Jose and Panama), but outside of that, you can only get 33's (and not in all the small towns).  If you truly want to go with a tire available everywhere (including very small towns), you would need to drop to a 31" (and if it is Latin America you are talking about, a 265/70).

As for 15 or 16 size, the new Toyota HiLux Pickups all come with 16" wheels, so getting an R16 tire should not be all that difficult (as long as you dont mind going to metric, it should be available in most major towns).  I know the HiLux comes in either 265/70 (also the stock setup for the Fortuner, which is also popular around here) or 205 from the factory depending on what you buy, and since that is the best selling pickup in both countries, I am sure you would find tires for it almost anywhere...

In fact, even the Landcruiser 70, which is still popular in Panama comes with 16 inch wheels, so at least down here, R16 would not be that much of a problem (also, Costa Rica sells almost as many Land Rovers as all the rest of Latin America combined, so with so many Defenders here, R16 again would be readily available).

Anyway, just input from my side of the world, should you ever head down this way to explore (and if you do, make sure to give me a heads up!).

Felipe

I wouldn't want to go less then 33's since I do want to be able to drive over rocks and not drag them with me.    I figure that 16's would start to be more prevalent.  Like I said Tacoma/Hi-Lux and Defenders went with 16's years ago.  The P Metric equivalent is 255.85R16 which I believe is easier to find then 33x10.5R15's.  At least more companies seem to make that size.  With the 33x10.5's I'm pretty much limited to BFG, which isn't all bad.

[chrisfranklin]

Jeffy you didn't just delete all that building trail stuff we were talking about did you?   We could have just started another topic and copy and pasted it over there.  Or maybe you did and I am just slow this morning. 

Jeffy, where did it go?  I'm not saying that deleting Jeep-related material your members write -- even if off topic -- deserves    This is a good site and all, but the apparent deletion rather than move is a little dissapointing   

[jfrabat]

Jeffy, where did it go?  I'm not saying that deleting Jeep-related material your members write -- even if off topic -- deserves    This is a good site and all, but the apparent deletion rather than move is a little dissapointing   

Dude, you're straying off topic again; start a new thread to discuss this issue...

[FourbangerYJ]

Glad to know there is still alot of land left open to do expo wheeling. With all the land closures that have happened and will happen it's a dying activity. I always think of the Camel trophy stuff or Africa,Land of Oz, or South America for expo stuff.
I still think with 33's the D30 has plenty of beef. Stepping up to a D44 is alot of money to gain lockouts. There is other benefits to the D44, but for this type of wheeling you shouldn't worry about the strenght of the D30.
I like the KM2 very nice looking tire. The 33-10.5 would be a good one! I am thinking of going back to 35's in the KM2 flavor. Unless something comes around in my size that I like.

[sharpxmen]

tsd made some good points and from personal experience:
 - x2 on dual batteries (currently i have a manual disconnect, so far i only forgot to disconnect the main once and almost couldn't start the jeep in the morning, best is a battery isolator but i have yet to find one that is beefy enough to take the current for the winch)
 - x2 on cooler - i have one with a peltier (TEC) module, cools pretty well but you need to make sure you don't leave the cover open too long. ARB ones are nice but really expensive
 - offroad gps - fugawi explorer and another one i can't remember right now worked best for me with offroad maps - while most of them (maps) are only somewhat accurate they still give you a pretty good idea where you are at (these were both setup on a laptop)
 - winch
 - on board air

not sure if this is available but i would love to see a mini 12v generator that can be started by hand and with which you could recharge the battery (or batteries) if necessary (needs to be built that way so it won't smoke itself to death if the battery is almost completely discharged) - after my experience with the Jeep barely starting in the middle of nowhere i definitely think this would be a great item to have - the smaller the better, not sure if anthing like that even exists

[FourbangerYJ]

A buddy of mine has a small pull start Honda genny. It's small enough to fit in the Jeep for sure. Not sure it's specs. I would imagine it could charge a battery. Maybe on a trickle charge at least. A inverter would also be a great item. 1000 watt would come in handy for all kinds of things. Power tools and recharging small batteries come to mind.

[sharpxmen]

A buddy of mine has a small pull start Honda genny. It's small enough to fit in the Jeep for sure. Not sure it's specs. I would imagine it could charge a battery. Maybe on a trickle charge at least. A inverter would also be a great item. 1000 watt would come in handy for all kinds of things. Power tools and recharging small batteries come to mind.

something that would fit under the hood would be  - i'm thinking maybe powered by a little engine like the grass trimmers have, i don't care if it would take 5 hrs to recharge the batt but would be great in an emergency - or maybe even to be used to recharge the secondary battery rather than starting the jeep for that, but they are quite noisy so i guess i would rather listen to the 4banger idling

[jfrabat]

I think you mean something like this:

EU2000iA

•2000 watts, 120V
•Ideal for TV/DVD, satellite, fridge, coffee pot, and more
•Super quiet
•Easy to carry - less than 47 lbs!!
•Fuel efficient - up to 15 hrs on 1 gal of gas
•Inverter - stable power for computers and more

EU2000i                      Specifications
Engine                        Honda GX100 
Displacement               98.5cc 
AC Output                   120V 2000W max. (16.7A) 1600W rated (13.3A) 
Receptacles                 20A 125V Duplex 
DC Output                   12V, 96W (8A) 
Starting System            Recoil 
Fuel Tank Capacity        0.95 
Run Time per Tankful      4hrs.  (at)  rated load, 15 hrs.  (at)  1/4 load 
Dimensions (L x W x H)   20.1" x 11.4" x 16.7" 
Noise Level                   59 dB  (at)  rated load 53dB  (at)  1/4 load 
Dry Weight                   46.3 lbs. 
Residential Warranty       3 Years 
Commercial Warranty      3 Years

You could carry this one on the back and hook it up if necessary.  For an expedition vehicle, I'd rather not have the generator under the hood, as (1) if you cross a river, it's bound to break (and they are not cheap!), and (2), they will suffer less due to heat from the engine (think how many times you've heard about vacuum lines cracking due to heat!).

EDIT

They also have this one on the site; smaller (a bit over a cubic foot) and cheaper, more fuel efficient, and runs longer with one fuel tank (you can use your Jerry can to refill it later).

Felipe

[Tsd]

I think you mean something like this:

You could carry this one on the back and hook it up if necessary.  For an expedition vehicle, I'd rather not have the generator under the hood, as (1) if you cross a river, it's bound to break (and they are not cheap!), and (2), they will suffer less due to heat from the engine (think how many times you've heard about vacuum lines cracking due to heat!).

EDIT

They also have this one on the site; smaller (a bit over a cubic foot) and cheaper, more fuel efficient, and runs longer with one fuel tank (you can use your Jerry can to refill it later).

Felipe

Those generators would be sweet when your are parked and don't want to use the Jeep's batteries. I think it would kick ass if you could add a solar panel (useful, no just for the looks) so that you won't have to depend 100% on the jeep batteries or generator. Besides if you ever get stranded in the desert and your batteries run out there will be plenty of sun to charge everything, jeep batteries included.

[Jeffy]

The problem with portable generator is what are you bringing that may need that much power?  You're not FEMA and you're generally not spending that much time in one place so loading and unloading it could be a PITA after a while.

BTW: Already have a winch and OBA.  Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder.  Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.

Keep in mind that a Exploration vehicle needs to be relatively light.  We're not moving. 

[sharpxmen]

I think you mean something like this:

You could carry this one on the back and hook it up if necessary.  For an expedition vehicle, I'd rather not have the generator under the hood, as (1) if you cross a river, it's bound to break (and they are not cheap!), and (2), they will suffer less due to heat from the engine (think how many times you've heard about vacuum lines cracking due to heat!).

EDIT

They also have this one on the site; smaller (a bit over a cubic foot) and cheaper, more fuel efficient, and runs longer with one fuel tank (you can use your Jerry can to refill it later).

Felipe

the second one would be ideal, but it is $$$ - but yeah, would be great especially that it can probably be fitted between the rad and the motor on a 4 banger - sticking to my guns here as every time i take a trip the jeep is fully loaded touching the soft-top and some stuff on the over the tire rack as well so not much room for extras. Sucks that the 12v only gives out 100W whereas the 120V is rated at 1000W - but i guess you can have a charger connected to the 120V outlet.

BTW: Already have a winch and OBA.  Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder.  Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.

sorry Jeffy, i thought we're listing what would be good to have on an expedition vehicle, i didn't mean you should get these (somehow i knew you've got those, can't remember from which thread might have been the Jeffy's Joop one).

[jfrabat]

The problem with portable generator is what are you bringing that may need that much power?  You're not FEMA and you're generally not spending that much time in one place so loading and unloading it could be a PITA after a while.

BTW: Already have a winch and OBA.  Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder.  Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.

Keep in mind that a Exploration vehicle needs to be relatively light.  We're not moving. 

Regarding the generator, I am thinking camping on the beach; you have NO IDEA how hot it can get down here, and having a fan that can run all night is a blessing from above!  Not to mention it is useful to have 110V to run whatever power tool or electronic you may need along the way.  And since we are talking about a generator the size of a large lunchbox, I think it would be nice...  

Another choice is to get one of these from Harbor Freight.  I leave mine on the dash when I leave the Jeep in Panama, and that way I am sure the electornics will not drain the battery regardless of how long I let it sit...



It's a nice bit of insurance, and only $20...

By the way, I am also thinking about adding a welder sometime...  But not for now.

Felipe