Topic: The dilemma: Rockcrawler v Expedition

[Tsd]

I vote for explorer, or expedition vehicle. Every time I read about guys driving around the world I get infinitely jealous. With my family he have done several trips around South America on our bone stock 1998 Suburban 1500. I want to be able to do the same on my Jeep, obviously not carrying 6 people and their luggage around, only my girlfriend and me  . I want to buy a roof top tent next year, something like the Oasis II. My ultimate goal is to be able to fit 33" without lifting the jeep, something like the AEV Highline kit or a homemade chop. +1 expedition vehicle 

[Jeffy]

I vote for explorer, or expedition vehicle. Every time I read about guys driving around the world I get infinitely jealous. With my family he have done several trips around South America on our bone stock 1998 Suburban 1500. I want to be able to do the same on my Jeep, obviously not carrying 6 people and their luggage around, only my girlfriend and me  . I want to buy a roof top tent next year, something like the Oasis II. My ultimate goal is to be able to fit 33" without lifting the jeep, something like the AEV Highline kit or a homemade chop. +1 expedition vehicle 

The problem I see with lifting without using a lift is that you'll need to do a lot of chopping.  Also, the stock springs don't flex that well in SUA.  You also have to consider raising everything else up like the transfer case.  That usually means you'll need a body lift as the floor is a bit low to get the transfer case flat.  I think for most of the world you can probably get away with 31's and a winch and shovel but all the pictures of people digging make me tired.

[Jeffy]

Here's some picts of a FJ80's with 35x10.5R16's and 16x7 steel wheels.  I like the stance but I don't really like the tires.  They're Interco SSR Radials.  The owner isn't really happy with the tires but likes the size.

[aw12345]

Jeffy, I would just throw a tent in the back and some goodies and wing it, is the quickest way to find out what needs to be improved and changed

[dwtaylorpdx]

So google Ultralight backpacking, specifically:

www.rayjardine.com
www.the-ultralight-site.com

These get the idea across. Weight is the worst enemy for power, longevity etc.
If you reduce the cargo load you increase range and ability.

I'm not a fan of the rooftop  tent units, Ive yet to see or use one that is any easier
to set up than my Eureka and they add weight where I don't want it.
Most of the rooftop units add almost 100lbs to the rig or more. And the
couple I've slept in had less room than my tent. I also don't like the way the
rig rocks around when I'm sleeping.

Dave

[Tsd]

all the pictures of people digging make me tired.

That's why I want to bring my girlfriend with me! 

Jeffy, I would just throw a tent in the back and some goodies and wing it, is the quickest way to find out what needs to be improved and changed

+1 That's the best advice given on this thread

[Jeffy]

So google Ultralight backpacking, specifically:

www.rayjardine.com
www.the-ultralight-site.com

These get the idea across. Weight is the worst enemy for power, longevity etc.
If you reduce the cargo load you increase range and ability.

I'm not a fan of the rooftop  tent units, Ive yet to see or use one that is any easier
to set up than my Eureka and they add weight where I don't want it.
Most of the rooftop units add almost 100lbs to the rig or more. And the
couple I've slept in had less room than my tent. I also don't like the way the
rig rocks around when I'm sleeping.

Dave

Oh, I know about ultra light backpacking.  I need to get some new gear but I've done the 50-75lbs worth of extra crap for 50 miles stuff before.  That's why I drive.     I also know a bit about motorcycle camping as well.

That's why I want to bring my girlfriend with me! 

+1 That's the best advice given on this thread

Kind of hard to plan for the unexpected by going to places you normally go though.  That's what I like about the expedition vehicles, they're not great at any one thing but are well built to get through almost anything.

[FourbangerYJ]

Sounds like we need to do the Mojave Road!

I like the look of the expo rigs. I wouldn't drive around like I see some with all the gas cans and water cans all the time.
With the trails we have around here you can do most of them with 33's.

  That's what I like about the expedition vehicles, they're not great at any one thing but are well built to get through almost anything.

This pretty much sums it up with your plans and what you already have.

[Jeffy]

Sounds like we need to do the Mojave Road!

I like the look of the expo rigs. I wouldn't drive around like I see some with all the gas cans and water cans all the time.
With the trails we have around here you can do most of them with 33's. This pretty much sums it up with your plans and what you already have.

That reminds me of a Land Rover I saw on the Rubicon.  It looked relatively stock with a huge rack on top.  The guy had cans spanning across the back.  I asked him about all the gas and he said they were empty and just for looks.  He was on the slabs at the time...

I don't plan on driving around like I'm waiting for something to happen.  I think what I really want is a narrower track and the flexibility of the vehicle.  I don't see myself swapping engines any time soon and for most of the trails around here 33's will be fine.  Even if I go narrow, I can probably get a second set of tires in 35x12/5R15's and have the best of both.

I bet the jeep will look a little funny with 33x10.5's on the stock 15x6's and my 7" flares.  Might want to use a readily available steel wheel then go with a Stockton.  The ones on the TLC are Taco spare tire wheels, 16x7 6 on 5.5 with 4.5" BS.

[dwtaylorpdx]

My tires are 32.5x9" I'll try and post up some pics so you
can see the look. Mine are 16" wheels but it will give you an idea...

BTW BFG makes a MT in a 33x9.50x15 (I can't remember teh real metric size... )

Dave

[Jeffy]

My tires are 32.5x9" I'll try and post up some pics so you
can see the look. Mine are 16" wheels but it will give you an idea...

BTW BFG makes a MT in a 33x9.50x15 (I can't remember teh real metric size... )

Dave

BFG's KO's are 33x9.5 while their KM's are are 33x10.5's.  IIRC, 255.85R16's are 33x10.5R16's

[chrisfranklin]

Jeffy you didn't just delete all that building trail stuff we were talking about did you?   We could have just started another topic and copy and pasted it over there.  Or maybe you did and I am just slow this morning. 

[jagular7]

I'vebeen off for 2 days and all this happens....

I would look at weighing a budget to fit your requirements. You need to decide to pro/con on every aspect of your needs that you can identify. Make a table, use a priority system and go from there. Many do it in their head based on their local terrain, obstacles that conquered them rather them conquering the obstacle, money they have free to spend (or not!), peer pressure - even from these lists, and the list can go on and on.

There are ways of meeting both exploration as well as crawling aspects of a vehicle. Take a look at many of the vehicles over the web (like you haven't done that already). They are modified slightly to increase the capability but not overly done for one single purpose. Mainly to keep them street legal but also to meet certain criteria from the owner.

I take on maybe 5-10% of what I consider hardcore wheeling with my 2.5/auto TJ on 35s. I've got stock skids to protect the underside. And this hardcore is taking its toll on the belly skid. I tend not to go wheeling out on my own. I go somewhat prepared for the trail, time wheeling, weather, and who is riding with me (kids or no kids). I use my winch as necessary.

I do have a lot of heavy equipment I can throw into a build, but I'm just fine using bolt-on stuff for my TJ. I've got a totally rebuild Ford D60R that all it needs is a r&p, (Detroit, shafts/spares, lockouts, bearings, kingpins, brakes are all new), custom Alcan leafs with the orbital eye (for another project years ago which I never completed), Klunev/205 (Ford application), Sterling 10.25 with ARB waiting for r&p to match front, Duff radius arms with a heim as large as my palm, 4.3l/4L60 complete with everything even cruise, and I have a few more items specifically just for the TJ. The big items I've had sitting in the garage before I even bought my TJ 6 yrs ago. The cost to complete the install, getting tires and wheels, more lift, will amount to too much upfront money. The 35s' are very cost effective for my application as well as all the bolt-on stuff I've added over the years.

If anything, maintain your current setup. If you want to do something different, explore another vehicle and use that as a building platform. This will in turn be a very cost effective option in the long run (5-7 yrs). I've been through a lot of 4wd vehicles. Each has their pros/cons to their function. A lot of them use the bolt-on system very effectively. Some work does require specialty of material and welding.
Take a VW Bug platform and build a 2wd street buggy. Then add a Vanagan 4wd system to it. That can be your tube buggy.....A friend is building a buggy as a single seater from tubing, but using a 3cyl Metro/auto trans (no tcase) as a mid-engine layout with Sami axles and 31's. It should be about the wheelbase of a Sami and weigh about 1400#s it that. Just ideas for a specific rock runner.

[Tsd]

I think your tire size/brand really depends on where do you want to go
exploring. Size 16 rims are not that popular outside the U.S. A few years
 ago we were on the south of Argentina and we went through our 2 spares.
 Nobody had tires for 16" rims. We had to order them from Buenos Aires
 and paid like 350 dollars for some crappy firestone tires, each one.
 If it were my jeep I would go with 15" rims, a world known tire brand like
 BFG and a tire size that's available anywhere like 31" or 33" at most .
I think you will also need to improve the stock electrical system of the
jeep with something like a dual battery setup, one for the engine and one for everything else,  and a current converter from 12V to 110V, after all you will be relying on the jeep to use and charge all
electrical devices you might want to take with you, laptop, gps , camera,
navigation devices, etc.  I guess air conditioning (with a good filter!) would be useful while traveling through dusty desert roads, and a good heater that will allow
you to sleep inside the jeep with -22 degrees celsius outside (personal experience).

You'll need a good electrical cooler/freezer, I think ARB has some pretty good ones.

That's all that comes to my mind right now..I hate mondays!   
Hope this post is well written, I hate posting through the phone.

[FourbangerYJ]

Where do you go for expo style wheeling in the US? What comes to mind is the Mojave Rd, Dusy thou its a cross between expo and rockcrawling, same for the 'Con. I have heard there was a road that goes from San Diego to somewhere in AZ.