Topic: Front Detroit or Spool?

[neale_rs]

The 27 spline superior front shaft have survived a bo-yah! load of abuse so far. so truth be told for most any wheeling with 33's or 35's they would be just fine, unless you stick a v8 in front of it, then it's dana 60 or spidertrax time

What u-joints are you using?

[Bounty Hunter]

A Detroit or ARB, with or without chromo shafts, is way too much $$ to be investing in a d30 axle.  The YJ is super simple to put axles in, why not upgrade the front to a Waggy d44?  Then you have the benefits of a larger ring and pinion, lower gearing options, cheaper highsteer, stronger and serviceable bearings, locking hubs, larger brakes, etc.

[jfrabat]

I'll tell you, after regearing, changing to alloys, and installing ARB's, I regret not swaping in a Waggy D44 front and Isuzu/Honda D44 rear...  I would have gotten rear disc brakes, stronger axles, deeper gears and for about the same (there would have been no need to upgrade to alloys).  Now I'm stuck on 4.88 wishing I had 5.13 gears...  And may need to spend more dough on a rear disc conversion to improve my brakes.

[neale_rs]

A Detroit or ARB, with or without chromo shafts, is way too much $$ to be investing in a d30 axle.  The YJ is super simple to put axles in, why not upgrade the front to a Waggy d44?  Then you have the benefits of a larger ring and pinion, lower gearing options, cheaper highsteer, stronger and serviceable bearings, locking hubs, larger brakes, etc.

I would consider a narrowed Ford HP D44 but not the Waggy front axle. I know it is a good axle and know people who run it but I'm not willing to give up any ground clearance under the pinion (my tires are 33" and I'm not planning to go any taller).

[neale_rs]

I'll tell you, after regearing, changing to alloys, and installing ARB's, I regret not swaping in a Waggy D44 front and Isuzu/Honda D44 rear...  I would have gotten rear disc brakes, stronger axles, deeper gears and for about the same (there would have been no need to upgrade to alloys).  Now I'm stuck on 4.88 wishing I had 5.13 gears...  And may need to spend more dough on a rear disc conversion to improve my brakes.

Those are nice axles but I really don't feel the need for the use I would give them.

[jfrabat]

Those are nice axles but I really don't feel the need for the use I would give them.

You do bring up a good point; suggestions on how to improve your rig have to take into account how you plan to USE your rig...

[Jeffy]

Those are nice axles but I really don't feel the need for the use I would give them.

I would look for simplicity and the availability of parts as well.  Being able to order stock shafts from just about anyone verses specialized shafts from one or two mfg's.  Even if you're not planning on needing them, having extra strength is better then having just enough.  You might change your mind and be locked into the stock axles.

[neale_rs]

Ok, it looks like I could buy alloy shafts and a locker in the D30 for $1550 including labor without looking around too much.

Given I don't have any space to put an extra vehicle, I would need to buy just a front axle (Ford HP Dana 44). Cost estimate:

Axle $500 maybe
Gears and install kit $300
Gear setup $150
Rear axle shafts  for bolt pattern $100 (maybe)
Rear drum redrilling               $
Wheels to match bolt pattern  $
Narrowing                            $
Front shafts due to narrowing $150 (maybe)
Brake repairs may be needed   $
Locker $850

Very nice setup but it is more expensive.

Based on comments here the upgraded D30 should do fine, cost less, and take less time and effort to get it done.

[aw12345]

Except for thicker axle tubes and being able to run 5.38 gears there isn't much of an advantage in running a dana 44. the axle shafts are only marginally stronger than a dana 30 hp, still uses the same size u joint so no gain there. If you do not need a gear ratio over 4.88 or go bigger than 35" tires a hp 30 is the best bang for the buck

[FourbangerYJ]

If your sure your not going to go bigger than a 35 and your happy with the gearing. Then pimp out your D30 and have a great time!  It's a pretty tough axle given it's size.

[Jeffy]

Ok, it looks like I could buy alloy shafts and a locker in the D30 for $1550 including labor without looking around too much.

Given I don't have any space to put an extra vehicle, I would need to buy just a front axle (Ford HP Dana 44). Cost estimate:

Axle $500 maybe
Gears and install kit $300
Gear setup $150
Rear axle shafts  for bolt pattern $100 (maybe)
Rear drum redrilling               $
Wheels to match bolt pattern  $
Narrowing                            $
Front shafts due to narrowing $150 (maybe)
Brake repairs may be needed   $
Locker $850

Very nice setup but it is more expensive.

Based on comments here the upgraded D30 should do fine, cost less, and take less time and effort to get it done.

Most of that stuff disappears if you swap BOTH axles at the same time.  If you do your homework, you won't have to narrow anything.  No need to redrill either.  You will need new wheels and you can also SELL your old axles and wheels.  Like I said you can sometimes buy a whole truck for under $2000 then sell off everything you won't need.  You can probably even make money.

If we were comparing staying stock and maybe using some alloy axles to going D44, I might say, it's not worth it but if you're going to be spending $1000 on axle shafts alone, I say it's not worth it.  Then you're spending $550 on stub shafts.  You're still dealing with the stock housing and the stock gears.  Then you're spending "Locker $850" to add an ARB in there.  The cost of the ARB is moot since you would be putting it in either.  And like I said before, labor would cover the gear install if you went with a 44 or larger.  BTW: you would also get actual disconnect hubs which would also be a plus.  Not to mention the larger bolt pattern.  And since we're talking HP D44, there is a strength increase in the gears as well.

The whole D30 argument is the same one we have with the D35...

When you're budget starts getting over $1000, I say it's time to consider upsizing.

If you're not breaking things now with the stock axle then throw in an ARB and carry some spare shafts...

[FourbangerYJ]

The whole D30 argument is the same one we have with the D35...

The D30 is way more reliable than the D35. I have seen it live with 33-37's with little or no problems. I wouldn't recommend going larger than 35's. I 've seen the D35 fail with stockish size tires and no wheeling

When you're budget starts getting over $1000, I say it's time to consider upsizing.

It's hard to stay under 1K once you add a good locker and some good shafts. Lots of times good used stuff comes up at a good price.

If you're not breaking things now with the stock axle then throw in an ARB and carry some spare shafts...

That is some good advice. Stay with the 27 spline and if you start having problems you can upgrade. I would still carry spares depending on what style of wheeling your doing.
If I didn't need deeper gearing I think I would have stayed with the D30. Or until it started giving me problems regularly.

[Jeffy]

The D30 is way more reliable than the D35. I have seen it live with 33-37's with little or no problems. I wouldn't recommend going larger than 35's. I 've seen the D35 fail with stockish size tires and no wheeling

That's only because it's up front.  On the other hand, I've seen D35's with 35-37's (& lockers) that have survived mild wheeling.  D35's are a bit hit&miss.  Still, I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of spending all that money and having something else break.  Keep in mind that the YJ D30 has that cast coupler on the long side as well.  I would say if you're going to keep a D30 then you would want an XJ hi-pinion.

It's hard to stay under 1K once you add a good locker and some good shafts. Lots of times good used stuff comes up at a good price.

But then you get stronger shafts with a D44.  Larger brakes, larger axle housing, larger R&P, real hubs, etc... Not to mention all of the other options like Hi-steer.   So as a package, it would make sense if you're going to take advantage of it.  Even if you don't, it's nice to be overbuilt and not have to worry.

That is some good advice. Stay with the 27 spline and if you start having problems you can upgrade. I would still carry spares depending on what style of wheeling your doing.
If I didn't need deeper gearing I think I would have stayed with the D30. Or until it started giving me problems regularly.

I've done gears and have a TrueTrac in mine.  I got the TT for cheap and the gears were cheap as well.  I think I have less then $300 in my D30.  Selling it, I could probably make $300-400 with the right buyer.  I traded my D35 away.  Actually, I pretty much gave it away and it had 4:56's.  I traded it for a AX-5, Bell housing and NV231 then I traded that for a radiator and soft top, which I needed more.  I could probably have got around $3-400 for that as well.  I have less then $2000 in my D44 which for the most part is all new.  That includes axle shafts, drums, brakes pads, locker and gears.  If I was t do it over again, I'd consider buying a SJ or '78/'79 F250-F350 then build up the axles piecemeal as I wheel on the stock axles.

[Bounty Hunter]

Except for thicker axle tubes and being able to run 5.38 gears there isn't much of an advantage in running a dana 44. the axle shafts are only marginally stronger than a dana 30 hp, still uses the same size u joint so no gain there.

Not to mention a stronger ring and pinion when running low gears, more affordable locker options, locking hubs, stronger and serviceable wheel bearings, more affordable high steer options, larger brakes.

The d30's unit bearings just don't last with oversize tires and wheeling.  Around here, a pair of d44's would go for about $300 at a pick n pull.  Then add lockers and gears that you would be putting in stock axles anyway, so the cost difference is insignificant.

The low-pinion of the Waggy d44 front isn't too bad, it's only marginally lower than the HP44.  I've got a HP44 from a Ford that I'm going to narrow to Waggy width so stock waggy shafts will slide right in.  I will end up with a stong 3/4t axle housing, high pinion, without having to use a full-width housing.  Strongly considering rebuilding the rear 'Zu d44 with a HP center chunk as well

[FourbangerYJ]

I won't argue that a D30 is better than a D44. It's a great axle with many advantages over the D30. But for someone who wants to stay with 33's or so the D30 would work fine with good shafts and a locker. Or a locker and spare shafts. A large % of people would not go to the trouble or don't know how to do a D44 swap just to run a 33 inch tire.