Author Topic: Convince ME!!!!!  (Read 2817 times)

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wildman4x4nut

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Convince ME!!!!!
« on: February 05, 2006, 07:36:48 PM »
Hi all,
I am about at a big turning point with my Jeep. I guess part of this is that I just paid it off last month.

So here is the deal; I bought a supercharger from Trailblazer, it is an older Rimmer. I am planning on installing it here in the next month. Along with the blower I'll be swapping in new axles. A Hp44 front that I may make into a D44/D60 & a Tera CRD60 rear axle. I'll be running 5.13 gears and ARB lockers.

So what I am toying with is instead of doing the supercharger I also have a Dodge Magnum 5.2 V-8 & 46RE 4speed auto tranny. I bought the engine & tranny before I got the supercharger. As you can see I will have more than enough axle for either decission. And right now I have a Tera 4:1 in my NP231 with a 21 spline input. If I keep the 4popper I'll be converting my NP231 to a crawler box. It is a kit that you use just the front of t-case and it is just like having a Klune but for about half the cost(well it is half the cost if you already have the 4:1). Then I'll be putting a flipped D300 behind the crawler. If I go with the V-8 I am not sure yet what I will run.

I personally think the 4popper with the right gears & forced induction will be a great combo for 35-37" tires. I also like the light weight weight of the 4popper. But like every red blooded boy I also like the POWER of a V-8. If I was to do the V-8 swap do you all think I could tow a 4,000lb trailer?

Okay so lets hear it. Stay with the 4cyl or do the V-8 swap.

Offline Jeffy

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2006, 08:31:37 PM »
Well, personally, I'd go with the V-8 if you have everything from the donor.  Otherwise, you'll be hunting for parts.  Those axles are a bit big though.  If I was going to keep the 2.5L, I'd go with D44's front and rear.  If you're worried, go FF with drive flanges.

The D44/D60 would be ebtter for the V8.  Although I'd look at a D60/14 combo.

For the drivetrain, I do something different.  If you're getting new axles, decide on what transfer case you want to use now.  If you want to use a D300, then go with a passenger side offset front axle.  If you want to have a driver side drop then you'd probably be better off going with a Ford D20 which is passenger side offset.

As for towing, you probably could tow more weight BUT, you'll still have to contend with the wheelbase.
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Offline jagular7

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2006, 08:42:01 PM »
You're adding weight that is unsprung and has larger rolling mass in comparison to stock. No matter how you gear it, that weight and mass affects acceleration on the street. Now what you need to look at is the hp/weight ratio, and when the torque gets applied. If it's a street-run vehicle, this will have a ill-effect with a 4-popper no matter how you punch it. For off-road in the slow going action, with proper gearing, this added weight has no effect other than balance. In the mud, the higher rpms must be used to spin the tires effectively (depending on the consistency of the mud).
In comparison to a v8, little to none comparison. The added weight low in the axles and tires will balance the heavier engine/trans combo. But then driving it, its another learning curve.

Due to what you've stated before, I'd go v8. The overall power to weight will be where its needed. To add, the right foot won't be down too far for any length of time. You'll probably get better mileage with it. Take a look at a Grand - 4.0l or a v8, in a vehicle weighing almost 4000#s with passengers. Imagine that with a 4-popper. LOL.
Jagular7
97 SE - Rubbered and locked for fun
94 SE - stock, collecting parts for 37s

wildman4x4nut

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2006, 12:24:03 PM »
Jagular,
Ya I've got a GC with a 4.7 V-8. I am spoiled with all the nice stuff it has.

hopp

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2006, 11:14:02 PM »
Without lengthening the weelbase I wouldn't tow a trailer over 2500Lbs. Has nothing to do with the drivetrain;If you want a better explanation google towing,moment, wheelbase, and inertia.

Personally I perfer the 4-cyl...It reminds me of a tractor motor and just feels more graceful on the tight northwoods logging roads I traverse.

You sound generally pleased with the 4 but it sounds like you need to gear properly.

x2 on Jeffy's drop comment.

trailblazer95

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2006, 05:13:36 PM »
well, here i am, back from the dead, and we're still talking superchagers... :D

Honestly, the gains I had from the supercharger were that of a comparable 4.0L motor.  (Non-HO).  The torque, and the acceleration were great, but it ended up costing me a hell of a lot of problems and headaches.  tuning it, and dialing in the proper a/f ratio was a pain.  it never completely ran the way it should have.  if i had enough guts to, i would have taken it to a ricer shop and had them tune it, but chances are, it'd still fall out of whack again.  

one thing you will notice quickly, is that it's not a v8.  as much as you try, and as hard as you tune and modify the engine, it just won't be a v8, and it won't smoke the 4.6L mustang sitting next to you at the traffic light.  the old saying is true "there's no replacement for displacement".   if you want the v8, go with it.  you'll be much more happy in the long run.

running around with the blower on, (when i could get it to run without problems) was nice.  throwing my clutch out due to the increase in torque and power wasn't nice, and the wear & tear on the engine internals began to show a lot more after the blower.  it wouldn't pass emissions, and frankly, after a while, i started to think that maybe it was just going to end up costing me too much money in the end.   that kit was good once, and it is what it is, a first generation prototype.  there's most likely been a lot of improvements since the rimmer days.  the new kits from avenger and the others have addressed issues such as fuel pumps, intercoolers, and whatever else wasn't part of the early prototypes.  

for now, i've taken my jeep back to the way it was.  a set of headers, taurus fan, 4.0TB, and that's about it.  i like the way it drives.  i also like the fact it doesn't break things anymore.  

if you're going to put the blower on, go for it.  figure up what it'd cost to do the v8 transplant (at least 5k), and save up that money just in case you need more juice.   :lol:  either way, good luck with it.

wildman4x4nut

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2006, 07:54:45 PM »
Trailblazer,
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I am still riding the fence on what to do. Even the NEW Avenger supercharger really doesn't do anything to address the fueling issues. This has been discussed on other boards. The other forced induction owners are split on running the SplitSecond kit and not. Those that do run it find better performance with it. The only thing you get with the Avenger SC is the intercooler and I don't really see the cooler doing a lot for performance.

wildman4x4nut

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2006, 08:01:16 PM »
Quote from: "hopp"
Without lengthening the weelbase I wouldn't tow a trailer over 2500Lbs. Has nothing to do with the drivetrain;If you want a better explanation google towing,moment, wheelbase, and inertia.

Personally I perfer the 4-cyl...It reminds me of a tractor motor and just feels more graceful on the tight northwoods logging roads I traverse.

You sound generally pleased with the 4 but it sounds like you need to gear properly.

x2 on Jeffy's drop comment.


I might push the 2,500 limit some if I had the power to pull it. But I am also an ex-truck driver so I am pretty comfortable with a trailer behind me. I do have the lowest gearing available for stock axles.

And I am not sure that adding the HP44 & CRD60 axles will have that much of a effect on the Jeep. Yes I know about unsprung weight and have seen the effect of just adding bigger tires.

trailblazer95

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2006, 07:28:10 AM »
Quote from: "wildman4x4nut"
Trailblazer,
 I don't really see the cooler doing a lot for performance.


you will when you see how toasty it gets under the hood.  it seriously produces a large amount of heat in the engine compartment.  i contemplated hood louvres to bring the temps back down.  even in the very front of the engine bay i recorded temps of up to 20 degrees higher than without the sc... now an electric fan may alleviate a lot of these problems, i put mine on after the sc came off.

many people that run performance superchargers with intercoolers, to still cool the incoming air, use water injection, which i did a lot of research into, but was still a bit hesitant to try. it's where a mist of water is added to the air intake tube to cool it.  it's actually been outlawed in some racing circuits.  ever run your jeep when it's below 30 degrees, or on a cold morning?  it runs a lot more strong than when it's 90 degrees.  your engine likes cold air.

wildman4x4nut

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2006, 12:09:42 PM »
Guess I will have to wait and see. I am installing a electric fan and have thought about the heat reduction hood. And yes I know the performance gains by cooling the intake charge.

wildman4x4nut

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Convince ME!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2006, 11:59:51 PM »
Hi all,
I am back again just to update everyone. I started taking the Jeep apart to install the supercharger. I didn't get far today but I did start. I have a spare intake so I was sizing it up to the Clifford intake. I am going to have to make a spacer bracket for the power steering pump. The Clifford intake only has 2 bolt holes for the pump and not 3 like on the TJ. I am going to take the fuel rail into a machine shop also and see if I can get the quick disconect welded/brazed to fitting so I don't have to cut the stock fuel lines.

I am going to see if this combo will give me what I am looking for onroad. I sure hope it does.

Jeff, I will try and take pictures of this as I go along and then when I get done maybe we can write something up.

Rick