Topic: D35 yoke bearing question

[jfrabat]

I have a question for you guys; is there more than one type of bearing for the yoke on the D35?  The shop told my dad that the bearing that came in the kit was the wrong size, and they had to get another bearing that fit properly.  Unfortunately, my dad did not understand what the guy said, but he told me it had something to do with the locker.  As far as I know, the locker does not affect the bearing (it just replaces the spider gears).  The good news is that the bearing was locally available, but I'm kind of trusting of Timken (which is what the kit brought), but God only knows what was procurred locally to put in there instead...  Anyway, I wanted to check if anyone knew of any reason why there would be different bearing sizes for the yoke side.

[Jeffy]

I've never heard of that issue before.

[aw12345]

The bearings on the ARB are different then the stock bearings, the pinion bearings should be stock seems to me somebody confused the two

[sharpxmen]

The bearings on the ARB are different then the stock bearings, the pinion bearings should be stock seems to me somebody confused the two

i didn't think he was replacing those (although a good idea, not saying he shouldn't)

[jfrabat]

I am replacing the bearing that ties the pinion to the block only, as it was the only one damaged.  BUt they are saying that the stock is different from the one used by the locker, which makes no sense to me (the pinion is not changed when you install a locker).

[sharpxmen]

I am replacing the bearing that ties the pinion to the block only, as it was the only one damaged.  BUt they are saying that the stock is different from the one used by the locker, which makes no sense to me (the pinion is not changed when you install a locker).

it's the same

[neale_rs]

This reminds me of an incident with a mechanic here in Mexico (about 25 years ago).  One time, we got a Detroit Locker to put in a pickup Dana 44 and he said it did not fit.  He ended up selling us a complete rear axle with a limited slip already installed.  They don't like it when the customer shows up with the parts since they can charge a lot more if they get the parts for you, so they make things up to sell you parts too.  That would be my guess.

[jfrabat]

Was in Panama this past week, and I went to see the Jeep to figure out what was going on with the new gear install...  First off, it seems that my dad had the information backwards; it's not the yoke bearing that needed to be replaced, but rather the bearings at the sides of the lockers (axle).  Now it makes sense that they would not fit...  So the yoke bearing IS the one from the kit.

Also, it seems my rear gear was VERY poorly installed the first (or second!) time around.  In all honesty, it seems that most of the damage to the pinion was done when the installer grinded out some of the pinion to avoid it hitting the lockers.  We are now making some additional shims to push the pinion a bit forward (just a couple of milimeters) so that the pinion (IN STOCK FORM!  NO GRINDING) will not hit the ARB locker.  They should have everything back together on Monday.

[sharpxmen]

Was in Panama this past week, and I went to see the Jeep to figure out what was going on with the new gear install...  First off, it seems that my dad had the information backwards; it's not the yoke bearing that needed to be replaced, but rather the bearings at the sides of the lockers (axle).  Now it makes sense that they would not fit...  So the yoke bearing IS the one from the kit.

Also, it seems my rear gear was VERY poorly installed the first (or second!) time around.  In all honesty, it seems that most of the damage to the pinion was done when the installer grinded out some of the pinion to avoid it hitting the lockers.  We are now making some additional shims to push the pinion a bit forward (just a couple of milimeters) so that the pinion (IN STOCK FORM!  NO GRINDING) will not hit the ARB locker.  They should have everything back together on Monday.

JF,
you are removing shims to have the pinion away from the carrier and you add to bring it towards it. All honesty this sounds like a bad job again, you have the depth of the pinion either written on it or it comes on a piece of paper, you set that off first using shims behind the inner bearing on the pinion shaft. Then when that's done you shim the carrier bearing outer races to get the pattern right (using the marking compound). If you want to get really fancy with it you use setting bearings and you add or remove depth on the pinion as well when you set the pattern (but if you stay with the given depth you shouldnt have to).
Also, the shims are hardened so making shims out of sheetmetal is not going to work (not sure what they are making them out of), they will cause the pinion to lose preload and eventually cause failure - you can buy shims as a set in various thicknesses (i can't remember if the install kit comes with any).

[aw12345]

The markings on aftermarket gears other than spicer gears are a joke, you pretty much set pinion depth by the pattern. Also the pinion should not even come close to the locker unless it ends up riding back and forth that is the only time it ends up with a wear pattern like that. If your carrier bearing were that bad that it allowed that much play to touch the arb locker it would have howled something fierce definitely a whole lot louder than tire noise

[jfrabat]

JF,
you are removing shims to have the pinion away from the carrier and you add to bring it towards it. All honesty this sounds like a bad job again, you have the depth of the pinion either written on it or it comes on a piece of paper, you set that off first using shims behind the inner bearing on the pinion shaft. Then when that's done you shim the carrier bearing outer races to get the pattern right (using the marking compound). If you want to get really fancy with it you use setting bearings and you add or remove depth on the pinion as well when you set the pattern (but if you stay with the given depth you shouldnt have to).
Also, the shims are hardened so making shims out of sheetmetal is not going to work (not sure what they are making them out of), they will cause the pinion to lose preload and eventually cause failure - you can buy shims as a set in various thicknesses (i can't remember if the install kit comes with any).

Sharp,

For some reason, with my setup, what it looks like is that with NO shims, the pinion contacts the locker.  With the first job, it seems like the shop fixed this little issue by taking the pinion to an axle grinder, hence most of the damage you see on this pic:




If you think about it, for that much damage to be done to the pinion, the locker should look A LOT worse than this:



So they are adjusting the pinion a bit forward, and then looking at the thread pattern.  To be honest, since this is the local ARB distributor, at least I will have a warranty on the job done...  And they did seem to me that they knew what they were talking about, so I feel a bit more at ease...  Anyway, we'll know for sure come Monday!

The markings on aftermarket gears other than spicer gears are a joke, you pretty much set pinion depth by the pattern. Also the pinion should not even come close to the locker unless it ends up riding back and forth that is the only time it ends up with a wear pattern like that. If your carrier bearing were that bad that it allowed that much play to touch the arb locker it would have howled something fierce definitely a whole lot louder than tire noise

That certainly sounds like the sound I was getting from the rear after the first install; I then took it back to the shop, and it seems they grinded out the pinion to "fix" the problem.

[sharpxmen]

Sharp,

For some reason, with my setup, what it looks like is that with NO shims, the pinion contacts the locker.  With the first job, it seems like the shop fixed this little issue by taking the pinion to an axle grinder, hence most of the damage you see on this pic:

in that case adding shims is not going to make it better, it will push it closer to the carrier, that's why i said it sounds like another bad job. maybe the race is not pressed in all the way, can't see any other way why the pinion would hit the carrier. Your gears are Superior and i doubt that they are out of spec, if you have that issue better contact them and ask, if you set the depth correctly per specs (which is the distance from the center of the carrier bearings to the face of the pinion) it will clear the carrier.
Probably the other shop pressed the bearing and they were too lazy to remove it and take out the shim(s) to set the depth correctly.

does anyone know if the carrier for the lower numerical gears is thicker and if the 4.88 would actually bolt to it? this is the only other difference that i can think of but i have no idea if the gears bolt onto it (i think the types were 3.73 and lower and 4.10 and higer or something like that, not sure exactly where the split was).

[aw12345]

A possibility is that they put this thick washer between the pinion bearing and the pinion head, the high pinion dana 30's use a much thinner oil slinger than the shim that is used with a low pinion dana 30 for a TJ other than that cannot think of a reason why this is so far out of whack

[jfrabat]

Probably the other shop pressed the bearing and they were too lazy to remove it and take out the shim(s) to set the depth correctly.

The bearing was out (and everything else was out) when I went by the shop on Saturday (on my way to the airport), so that's not the case... 

A possibility is that they put this thick washer between the pinion bearing and the pinion head, the high pinion dana 30's use a much thinner oil slinger than the shim that is used with a low pinion dana 30 for a TJ other than that cannot think of a reason why this is so far out of whack

We are talking about the 35, though, not the 30...

[neale_rs]

Could it all have been caused by housing flex?  Housing flex, pinion hits locker case, pinion gets pushed forward, ends up with play, etc.?

Would the gears even mesh well with the pinion installed so far toward the carrier?