4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: C.Redbeardd on November 04, 2009, 01:07:50 AM
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Ive tried looking for them, but I dont think anyone sells them. Any reason why i can find one for the pre and post 90 yj's but not the 1990? And if there is a way to make an aftermarket work? Any suggestions? Thanks!
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Ive tried looking for them, but I dont think anyone sells them. Any reason why i can find one for the pre and post 90 yj's but not the 1990? And if there is a way to make an aftermarket work? Any suggestions? Thanks!
I tried to find one myself, only ones I can find are for 91 and up....
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I believe I've found em for the pre 90 yj's but they just skip 90. Anyway, Ive heard there is just something different with how its setup and people just don't make em for this year. :'(
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can you link to the pre 1990 one? seems weird that 1990 would be different from 89 just to totally change for mpfi in 91
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can you link to the pre 1990 one? seems weird that 1990 would be different from 89 just to totally change for mpfi in 91
ditto....
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well im not totally sure whats different, but ill have to research it again. bahh
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well im not totally sure whats different, but ill have to research it again. bahh
buy a k&n filter and put it in your stock airbox. increase the opening in the front sheetmetal below the headlight and replace the narrow square tube with at least a 2.5'' tube. remove the restrictor in the back of the airbox - that will give you same airflow as an aftermarket CAI. You can go even further by getting a larger airbox from pick and pull (junkyard) and get a KnN for that one and for best results replace the plastic/rubber hose with an aluminum pipe 2.5'' in diameter and use couplers and a reducer to the airbox if that opening is larger - this setup should be good for at least 350cfm if not 400, more than you need for the 4 banger.
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awesome! Thanks man. Much appreciated! :dance:
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buy a k&n filter and put it in your stock airbox. increase the opening in the front sheetmetal below the headlight and replace the narrow square tube with at least a 2.5'' tube. remove the restrictor in the back of the airbox - that will give you same airflow as an aftermarket CAI. You can go even further by getting a larger airbox from pick and pull (junkyard) and get a KnN for that one and for best results replace the plastic/rubber hose with an aluminum pipe 2.5'' in diameter and use couplers and a reducer to the airbox if that opening is larger - this setup should be good for at least 350cfm if not 400, more than you need for the 4 banger.
Whats the cfm stock?
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Whats the cfm stock?
260cfm at 6000 rpm ideal (that means if you have no losses which is 100% VE and that never happens) - the way to calculate is
2.5L or 150 cubic inches total engine displacement => since is a 4 stroke/4 cyl it means it will require 1/2 of that for 1 rotation (2 rotations for a full cycle). So first translate the cu.in. displacement in cubic feet by dividing with 12^3 (1'x1'x1'=12''x12''x12'') = 1728 and multiply the result by the top rpm (i used 6000) - divide the result by 2 (2 full rotations for a full engine cycle).
so it's something like this (displacement_in_cu_ft/2)*rpm=260.4cfm
EDIT: you can approximate the VE for the Jeep engine with about 75% which means the actual requirement of the engine at 6000rpm is 260x0.75=195cfm, the more restrictive the intake the less VE, so by improving that you are actually increasing the VE which in turns means more air per cycle and ability to make more power.
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as far as i could tell the tbi air box doesn't have a restrictor in the back.. but it does have the restrictive tubing in front of the box to the grill. while your at it you may want to look at the hot air tube from the exhaust manifold to the air box.. mine was falling apart and being sucked into my air filter so you may want to see if yours is about to do the same.
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as far as i could tell the tbi air box doesn't have a restrictor in the back.. but it does have the restrictive tubing in front of the box to the grill. while your at it you may want to look at the hot air tube from the exhaust manifold to the air box.. mine was falling apart and being sucked into my air filter so you may want to see if yours is about to do the same.
that's a good tip, you definitely don't want hot air getting into the intake once your engine is warm. does that have some thermostat actuated gate? my 95 YJ does not have that at all, not sure why the tbi has it, could be that in the winter when the engine is cold might form ice below the butterfly - if you live somewhere with mild winters i would think you could get rid of that (or at least fix the gate or the thermostat if it has one).
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ya it has a vacuum actuator door thing to open and close the hot air source. the pipe is just a fabric tube mesh material and mine rotted in half basically so i completely removed it. since i did that ive been wanting to remove that actuator door assembly but haven't figured out how to yet in a non destructive way. didn't really think about "fixing" the hot air system since it seems like my jeeps cold weather starting issues are more related to it not wanting to turn over at -20 degrees
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260cfm at 6000 rpm ideal (that means if you have no losses which is 100% VE and that never happens) - the way to calculate is
2.5L or 150 cubic inches total engine displacement => since is a 4 stroke/4 cyl it means it will require 1/2 of that for 1 rotation (2 rotations for a full cycle). So first translate the cu.in. displacement in cubic feet by dividing with 12^3 (1'x1'x1'=12''x12''x12'') = 1728 and multiply the result by the top rpm (i used 6000) - divide the result by 2 (2 full rotations for a full engine cycle).
so it's something like this (displacement_in_cu_ft/2)*rpm=260.4cfm
EDIT: you can approximate the VE for the Jeep engine with about 75% which means the actual requirement of the engine at 6000rpm is 260x0.75=195cfm, the more restrictive the intake the less VE, so by improving that you are actually increasing the VE which in turns means more air per cycle and ability to make more power.
just a bit more explanation here: your goal is to have minimal pressure drop at the required cfm - the pressure drop is related to pipe diameter, roughness coefficient (how smooth is the pipe inside) and the length of the pipe, so for longer pipes you want larger diameter, the smoother they are the better (mandrel bent aluminum, stainless or steel are best - cast plastic is rougher so it will have higher loss but you can get away with larger diameter). all the high perf filters have a cfm rating but the higher the number the better as it will result in less pressure loss which directly affects your VE - for example the difference between a 2'' pipe and a 2.5'' pipe for 20'' of length the pressure loss at 200cfm is 0.27psi, between 2.5 and 3'' is 0.05 psi - so the benefit of going to 3'' in this case is minimal, from 2 to 2.5 is more significant - of course there are other factors like couplers and bends - the smoother the whole assembly the less pressure loss and better airflow to the engine.
EDIT: using same parameters, the 1.5'' pipe vs 2.5'' pipe press drop difference is 0.9psi, going to 1.25'' gets the pressure drop difference compared to 2.5'' to 2.5psi for 200cfm - so you get the idea. The 2.5'' diam for Jeep seems the right compromise between the size and pressure drop, going to 3'' will not result in significant gains but at 2'' will be considered restrictive.
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as far as i could tell the tbi air box doesn't have a restrictor in the back.. but it does have the restrictive tubing in front of the box to the grill. while your at it you may want to look at the hot air tube from the exhaust manifold to the air box.. mine was falling apart and being sucked into my air filter so you may want to see if yours is about to do the same.
Mine is getting all ripped apart. I just saw it a little while ago.
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what is the restrictor in the back of the airbox? I see three tubes going in back there.
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what is the restrictor in the back of the airbox? I see three tubes going in back there.
inside the outlet tube (the thick tube that is connected to the throttle body with the rubber hose) there is a velocity tube inserted - i think someone mentioned that yours might not have it, measure the inside of your outlet from the airbox and you'll figure out if you have it or not should be close to 2.5'' (a little less but i'm not sure how much less). i think you're at 2'' or so if you have the restrictor/velocity tube in there.
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I think I do have what you mentioned but ill check it out after class.
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I will do everything but the k&n. I wouldnt ever waste my money on that garbage again! they let too much debris through and the flow values are no better than a oem when it is filtering correctly, ie 60% restricted with dirt it filters 94% what your oem will even less when its nice and clean. The oil used on the filter will damage you maf and turbos as well. I recently sold my 03 duramax and this was a huge stink on forums for diesel trucks. You are definatly right about gutting it though. ps amsoil makes a nanofiber filter that outflows oem but still actually filters the air a small amount better than oem...
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I will do everything but the k&n. I wouldnt ever waste my money on that garbage again! they let too much debris through and the flow values are no better than a oem when it is filtering correctly, ie 60% restricted with dirt it filters 94% what your oem will even less when its nice and clean. The oil used on the filter will damage you maf and turbos as well. I recently sold my 03 duramax and this was a huge stink on forums for diesel trucks. You are definatly right about gutting it though. ps amsoil makes a nanofiber filter that outflows oem but still actually filters the air a small amount better than oem...
there's a relation between CFM, pressure drop and size of the filter - you would need a really large filter to have a pressure drop that is the same as a high flow filter one, of course it will let larger particles in, there is no way to use the same fabric and have higher flow in the same design filter - the downside of the KnN is that you have to clean it more often (rather than discard it and buy another cheap one) and reoil it. try this - lift the airbox cover, flip it around and lay the filter on top - open the throttle and see what happens - you will see the filter getting sucked in - now try the same with a high flow filter (doesn't have to be KnN and i am not saying it's the best filter out there either) - you'll see the deflection is way less that the stock filter - that's your pressure loss behind the filter. Like i said, ideally you should get a bigger box from a junkyard so your filter surface area is larger.
there's really no compromise, the better filtering capabilities the more loss and less performance, better flow is either using a really large airbox (some of the diesels have really big ones) or a high flow with the downside of letting in more particles.
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inside the outlet tube (the thick tube that is connected to the throttle body with the rubber hose) there is a velocity tube inserted - i think someone mentioned that yours might not have it, measure the inside of your outlet from the airbox and you'll figure out if you have it or not should be close to 2.5'' (a little less but i'm not sure how much less). i think you're at 2'' or so if you have the restrictor/velocity tube in there.
so this THICK TUBE CONNECTED TO THE THROTTLE BODY WITH THE RUBBER HOSE is the restrictor?
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(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u25/chardrc/jeep/IMG_2962.jpg) this is a picture of my 1990 air intake.. what thick tube are you talking about.
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I dont know. Thats why i am asking, But I cant really see much of your airbox. My 90 has three tubes coming out the back. Two thin and one thick.
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I dont know. Thats why i am asking, But I cant really see much of your airbox. My 90 has three tubes coming out the back. Two thin and one thick.
the outlet on the cover of the airbox that goes to the tube which is connected to the t/b - on 91-95 inside there's a restrictor tube - so you need to take the cover off and look towards the hose that connects to the t/b - but someone said that the tbi does not have the restrictor (or velocity) insert.
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http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3595.msg27785.html
I don't see any reason for a TBI to have it since the CCV doesn't go to the airbox.
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http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3595.msg27785.html
I don't see any reason for a TBI to have it since the CCV doesn't go to the airbox.
for some reason i thought is for the evap canister not for the valve cover vent bu again dunno if the tbi has it or not.
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there's a relation between CFM, pressure drop and size of the filter - you would need a really large filter to have a pressure drop that is the same as a high flow filter one, of course it will let larger particles in, there is no way to use the same fabric and have higher flow in the same design filter - the downside of the KnN is that you have to clean it more often (rather than discard it and buy another cheap one) and reoil it. try this - lift the airbox cover, flip it around and lay the filter on top - open the throttle and see what happens - you will see the filter getting sucked in - now try the same with a high flow filter (doesn't have to be KnN and i am not saying it's the best filter out there either) - you'll see the deflection is way less that the stock filter - that's your pressure loss behind the filter. Like i said, ideally you should get a bigger box from a junkyard so your filter surface area is larger.
there's really no compromise, the better filtering capabilities the more loss and less performance, better flow is either using a really large airbox (some of the diesels have really big ones) or a high flow with the downside of letting in more particles.
I understand what your saying, but they do not filter until they are more occluded than an oem and flow identical. On top of that dyno results from a drop in filter are little to nothing if anything at all. when i had my duramax dynoed I saw no gain in power with a complete intake that is until I was making 900 whp, then i needed more flow and saw a 8 hp increase after reinstalling the intake. I may be fairly new to the jeep side of the house but drag racing and pulling are my expertise. We have tried all types of filters and unless your making tons of power you will see no gain in filter media. especially in an offroad vehicle!
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Ok NO K&N wars, its a religious issue. :brick: And BOTH sides are right on about 1/2 the issue... :stick:
My 2.5 just ate another paper filter(2), I dropped the K&N I had and it got a hole in it,
so I had replaced it with paper...
Dave
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I understand what your saying, but they do not filter until they are more occluded than an oem and flow identical. On top of that dyno results from a drop in filter are little to nothing if anything at all. when i had my duramax dynoed I saw no gain in power with a complete intake that is until I was making 900 whp, then i needed more flow and saw a 8 hp increase after reinstalling the intake. I may be fairly new to the jeep side of the house but drag racing and pulling are my expertise. We have tried all types of filters and unless your making tons of power you will see no gain in filter media. especially in an offroad vehicle!
let me get this straight - you're telling me that you're using the same filter in your 900hp (sorry, whp) that you use in your Jeep? Are we talking nitro? Just because in that case your oxygen is coming from the bottle and not thru your air filter and the dyno is completely irrelevant. not sure what we are comparing here. and no, you cannot possibly have 2 filters that have different filtering properties with the same flow rating, it's not possible (same size filters) - as for filtering properties that is a downside, no question about that but you compare a plugged filter with a brand new one which is defeating the point, compare 2 old ones or brand new ones.
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I think the biggest issue is that too many people don't/did not care for the K&N correctly,
Don't take care of the paper filter in other words are not scientific samples of the subject.
I do know this:
Caterpiller found the K&N was inferior to their centrifical + paper
filters for stopping dirt, on silica, in the micron range.
I've run K&N filters since the 80's and they worked well, I define
well as no dirt past the filter I can see. I religiously maintained them
exactly like my original one required. I have sold all of my cars with
200+K miles and I am an avid off-roader so they see dirt a lot.
K&N filters will usually stop your engine from inhaling water in my limited experience.
I really like the outerwear foam wrap on the K&N for the sand.
The only filter that reliably stopped volcanic ash (I lived 10 miles from St Helens)
Was a K&N wrapped with a nylon stocking (4 layers/stocking.,)
Paper did not work because it sucked in when it plugged, this was
back when most rigs had the old round filters and carbs still.
I frankly don't care if they K&N flows any better or not, I use it to
stop a few more filters form hitting the land fill... My little contribution...
Dave
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I dont know. Thats why i am asking, But I cant really see much of your airbox. My 90 has three tubes coming out the back. Two thin and one thick.
those 3 tubes are vacuum hoses.. the big one is PCV in, and the other 2 are for the vacuum motor for the hot air door thing. take a look at this pdf... its basically what my 1990 is like except the TAC sensor part...
http://jeepgarage.free.fr/OWN/vacuum%20diagrams.pdf
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let me get this straight - you're telling me that you're using the same filter in your 900hp (sorry, whp) that you use in your Jeep? Are we talking nitro? Just because in that case your oxygen is coming from the bottle and not thru your air filter and the dyno is completely irrelevant. not sure what we are comparing here. and no, you cannot possibly have 2 filters that have different filtering properties with the same flow rating, it's not possible (same size filters) - as for filtering properties that is a downside, no question about that but you compare a plugged filter with a brand new one which is defeating the point, compare 2 old ones or brand new ones.
HAHAHAHAHA, the 2.5 air filter sure will fit in my airbox of my truck(well my dads truck now :-(....... but it will fall right down into the bottom and go into the intake tube..... and im sorry I meant 900 ftlb of torque and 500hp, and you are wrong about the filters my friend. a new k&n filter has very little filtering capabilities until it is about 60% dirty, so basicly the dirt is the filter..... and on an internally unmodified engine it requires an oem filter to be 80% occluded to show deminished power and economy on the majority of engines with no actual power gains coming from "just" and air filter replacment unless the one being replaced needed to be. Its the hype that they sell everyone on with these filters and they don't give the full picture. I used to buy into all that hype myself, but now realize the biggest loss in most intakes is the baffles, resonator box, and location of the incoming air to include the temp ofthe air where it is entering from.
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HAHAHAHAHA, the 2.5 air filter sure will fit in my airbox of my truck(well my dads truck now :-(....... but it will fall right down into the bottom and go into the intake tube.....
my point exactly - you have a larger filter (the size matters) - your 8HP gain there just by replacing the filter is pretty good actually
and you are wrong about the filters my friend. a new k&n filter has very little filtering capabilities until it is about 60% dirty, so basicly the dirt is the filter.....
actually I said the same thing, the better flowing filter will retain (filter) less dirt
HAHAHAHAHA, the 2.5 air filter sure will fit in my airbox of my truck(well my dads truck now :-(....... but it will fall right down into the bottom and go into the intake tube..... and im sorry I meant 900 ftlb of torque and 500hp, and you are wrong about the filters my friend. a new k&n filter has very little filtering capabilities until it is about 60% dirty, so basicly the dirt is the filter..... and on an internally unmodified engine it requires an oem filter to be 80% occluded to show deminished power and economy on the majority of engines with no actual power gains coming from "just" and air filter replacment unless the one being replaced needed to be. Its the hype that they sell everyone on with these filters and they don't give the full picture. I used to buy into all that hype myself, but now realize the biggest loss in most intakes is the baffles, resonator box, and location of the incoming air to include the temp ofthe air where it is entering from.
I don't work for KnN, it was just an example but by the looks of it (what you just posted) you probably missed this part at the beggining of the thread, so give it a read maybe that clears the issue
buy a k&n filter and put it in your stock airbox. increase the opening in the front sheetmetal below the headlight and replace the narrow square tube with at least a 2.5'' tube. remove the restrictor in the back of the airbox - that will give you same airflow as an aftermarket CAI. You can go even further by getting a larger airbox from pick and pull (junkyard) and get a KnN for that one and for best results replace the plastic/rubber hose with an aluminum pipe 2.5'' in diameter and use couplers and a reducer to the airbox if that opening is larger - this setup should be good for at least 350cfm if not 400, more than you need for the 4 banger.
just a bit more explanation here: your goal is to have minimal pressure drop at the required cfm - the pressure drop is related to pipe diameter, roughness coefficient (how smooth is the pipe inside) and the length of the pipe, so for longer pipes you want larger diameter, the smoother they are the better (mandrel bent aluminum, stainless or steel are best - cast plastic is rougher so it will have higher loss but you can get away with larger diameter). all the high perf filters have a cfm rating but the higher the number the better as it will result in less pressure loss which directly affects your VE - for example the difference between a 2'' pipe and a 2.5'' pipe for 20'' of length the pressure loss at 200cfm is 0.27psi, between 2.5 and 3'' is 0.05 psi - so the benefit of going to 3'' in this case is minimal, from 2 to 2.5 is more significant - of course there are other factors like couplers and bends - the smoother the whole assembly the less pressure loss and better airflow to the engine.
EDIT: using same parameters, the 1.5'' pipe vs 2.5'' pipe press drop difference is 0.9psi, going to 1.25'' gets the pressure drop difference compared to 2.5'' to 2.5psi for 200cfm - so you get the idea. The 2.5'' diam for Jeep seems the right compromise between the size and pressure drop, going to 3'' will not result in significant gains but at 2'' will be considered restrictive.
and to clarify something, you need to add a bit more fuel to the mix to get the best out of modding the intake - i'm not saying you'll gain 50HP but is good for about at least 4 if you get it right.
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my point exactly - you have a larger filter (the size matters) - your 8HP gain there just by replacing the filter is pretty good actually
actually I said the same thing, the better flowing filter will retain (filter) less dirt
I don't work for KnN, it was just an example but by the looks of it (what you just posted) you probably missed this part at the beggining of the thread, so give it a read maybe that clears the issue
and to clarify something, you need to add a bit more fuel to the mix to get the best out of modding the intake - i'm not saying you'll gain 50HP but is good for about at least 4 if you get it right.
Thats not what I posted either, I saw NO gain with just the filter, but with a complete intake ie tube and high flow cone filter I saw 8 hp at the wheels but none when the truck was mostly stock compared to the factory airbox and filter or k&n or airaid filters. You are correct about adding fuel to one extent, air may get in faster but you will also have to address the exhaust as well. I am certainly not trying to argue with you because you definatly make a valid point, but I was trying to enlighten you as well to the myth of the k&n filters(any oil types really). yes its nice it will last a long time but it also allows debris in, overoiling the filter will also damage your maf as it did on several diesel trucks i have worked on, same affect on a gasser but I have yet to work on one at this point other than my own.
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Thats not what I posted either, I saw NO gain with just the filter, but with a complete intake ie tube and high flow cone filter I saw 8 hp at the wheels but none when the truck was mostly stock compared to the factory airbox and filter or k&n or airaid filters. You are correct about adding fuel to one extent, air may get in faster but you will also have to address the exhaust as well. I am certainly not trying to argue with you because you definatly make a valid point, but I was trying to enlighten you as well to the myth of the k&n filters(any oil types really). yes its nice it will last a long time but it also allows debris in, overoiling the filter will also damage your maf as it did on several diesel trucks i have worked on, same affect on a gasser but I have yet to work on one at this point other than my own.
Neither the TBI or the MPI Jeeps have a MAF sensor - they both use a MAP sensor which cannot be harmed by the oil on the filter. So for all intents and purposes of this thread (Title: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ) not sure how is it relevant. The original poster asked this question as he could not find one for a 1990 YJ and i suggested an available (and cheaper) alternative to an aftermarket intake with almost the same results, i had no intention of discussing the dyno results of some diesel truck with which i have absolutely no experience or to discuss the pros and cons of aftermarket intakes, not to mention that in this case if you go offroading and it's a dusty trail it takes 2 minutes to put a stock airfilter back on to make sure it keeps the dirt out. If the thread title was "Is there any benefit on installing a KnN filter on xyz vehicle" I would have stayed out of it. My point was: rather than spending money on an aftermarket intake and piping use the current airbox, get a high flow filter, open the inlet, open the outlet, replace the connecting hose with a smooth metal pipe (ideally use a mandrel bent pipe and create an adapter to the t/b) and you will get almost if not the same results as the aftermarket intake for $30 or so.
the reason the aftermarket intakes have a more significant gain is because it addresses all these little things in one package which by themselves could be too less to notice but added up are something you could put your finger on.
For some reason we derailed the thread in this back and forth about KnNs and MAF and other stuff which is off subject and could be a thread on it's own so i'll stay out of it since i feel i got carried away and turned this into something else rather than what was meant for.
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Thanks sharpxmen. Anymore ideas to maybe put a little more performance back into the 90? My options seem rather limited compared to the later years.
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Thanks sharpxmen. Anymore ideas to maybe put a little more performance back into the 90? My options seem rather limited compared to the later years.
you could try to give it a little bit more fuel by increasing the Fuel pressure - chadrc has posted this link in another thread (don't want to take credit for it, so that is thanks to him, but it's good info so want to share it) - it's a pdf that explains the TBI fuel injection and also explains the way you adjust the fuel pressure - but do the high flow intake first and make sure you monitor the pressure when increasing it, you don't want to add too much (baby steps is best).
http://jeepgarage.free.fr/OWN/fuel%20injection%20system%20tbi.pdf
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Thank you so much. Ill let you know how it goes, or if i run into any problems. :thumbsup:
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Thank you so much. Ill let you know how it goes, or if i run into any problems. :thumbsup:
cool, post an update once you get that air-hog installed, interested to see what the first impression is.
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buy a k&n filter and put it in your stock airbox. increase the opening in the front sheetmetal below the headlight and replace the narrow square tube with at least a 2.5'' tube. remove the restrictor in the back of the airbox - that will give you same airflow as an aftermarket CAI. You can go even further by getting a larger airbox from pick and pull (junkyard) and get a KnN for that one and for best results replace the plastic/rubber hose with an aluminum pipe 2.5'' in diameter and use couplers and a reducer to the airbox if that opening is larger - this setup should be good for at least 350cfm if not 400, more than you need for the 4 banger.
Sharpxmen, what did you mean by the 2.5 tube? Like just pick one up at an autoparts store and switch it out? What kind of tube?
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Sharpxmen, what did you mean by the 2.5 tube? Like just pick one up at an autoparts store and switch it out? What kind of tube?
any pipe that you can adapt there will do.
not sure what the tbi airbox has, but the mpi has a square tube that is restrictive compared to a plain 2.5'' diam round tube - your goal is to get cold air from behind the grill where the square opening is under the headlight (so that would be in front of the rad so it's not heated). Increase that square opening to a round 2.5'' and use a 2.5'' pipe or tube (can be even the drain pvc tubes from home depot but in that case i would go with 3'' as they are quite thick). Exhaust pipe works too, it's fairly smooth inside. you can also use flex hose, the aluminum one is sturdier - that one can actually be cut and opened inside the airbox and you can use some resin/epoxy to glue those edges. If not you can always go with a piece of exhaust pipe and find a way to secure it to the airbox.
if you keep everything at least 2.5'' in diameter you have minimum restrictions, so keep that in mind - if you use something that is not smooth inside then better to go to a larger diameter like 2-3/4'' or even 3'' (for the aluminum flex hose for example)
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ah gotcha. I believe that hose is curved downward too?
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Be sure that when you increase the hole through the sheet metal by the headlight that
the air box inlet kind of matches it, but don't run a tube from the airbox through the hole
by the headlight. 94 YJ's had that stock and there was a tsb to cut it off or remove it
because they hydro locked some engines off-road. (It specifically a Off-road problem in the tsb)
Howell used to sell blueprinted injectors for TBI, there is only 1 body for the "egg"
injector but several flow rates.
Dave
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you could try to give it a little bit more fuel by increasing the Fuel pressure - chadrc has posted this link in another thread (don't want to take credit for it, so that is thanks to him, but it's good info so want to share it) - it's a pdf that explains the TBI fuel injection and also explains the way you adjust the fuel pressure - but do the high flow intake first and make sure you monitor the pressure when increasing it, you don't want to add too much (baby steps is best).
http://jeepgarage.free.fr/OWN/fuel%20injection%20system%20tbi.pdf
do you you think you could also post the link to the thread?
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do you you think you could also post the link to the thread?
i think i can :lol:
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,7576.0.html
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whats an LC1?
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whats an LC1?
wideband programmable O2 sensor (you can log wideband AFR and also simulate narrowband O2 output). www.tuneyourengine.com
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and that will tell you fuel pressure?
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and that will tell you fuel pressure?
air/fuel ratio
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where can I find a hand gauge to hook up to the TBI to test the pressure? I believe there is a pressure test fitting on it where you stick a guage of some sort.
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where can I find a hand gauge to hook up to the TBI to test the pressure? I believe there is a pressure test fitting on it where you stick a guage of some sort.
in that doc there's a diagram showing where you install the gauge on the pressure regulator. I have no idea what the fitting is, you'll have to figure it out - worst case scenario you take the t/b with you and take it to a parts store - they can probably get you a fitting to connect the gauge to the pressure check port
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Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.
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with all this talk about smooth intake pipes it would probably be beneficial to make a new pipe from the tb to the aitrbox since that is a bendy hose that is not smooth at all inside (see picture on page 1)... that's spreading that link... if you go 1 step back form there there is alist of alot of usefull pdfs that would be worth saving to your computer for future ref.
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so a straight hose from the filter box to the TB would be beneficial as well?
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id think it would flow batter than the stock one (i haven't realy messed around with my intake so can't say anything from experience). since the walls of the stock (pip) go in and out zigzag like... my only 2 concerns would be that i think the stock tube ends are ovals.. and that the motor moves a good bit so you'd still need some flexibility to make it work...
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Neither the TBI or the MPI Jeeps have a MAF sensor - they both use a MAP sensor which cannot be harmed by the oil on the filter. So for all intents and purposes of this thread (Title: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ) not sure how is it relevant. The original poster asked this question as he could not find one for a 1990 YJ and i suggested an available (and cheaper) alternative to an aftermarket intake with almost the same results, i had no intention of discussing the dyno results of some diesel truck with which i have absolutely no experience or to discuss the pros and cons of aftermarket intakes, not to mention that in this case if you go offroading and it's a dusty trail it takes 2 minutes to put a stock airfilter back on to make sure it keeps the dirt out. If the thread title was "Is there any benefit on installing a KnN filter on xyz vehicle" I would have stayed out of it. My point was: rather than spending money on an aftermarket intake and piping use the current airbox, get a high flow filter, open the inlet, open the outlet, replace the connecting hose with a smooth metal pipe (ideally use a mandrel bent pipe and create an adapter to the t/b) and you will get almost if not the same results as the aftermarket intake for $30 or so.
the reason the aftermarket intakes have a more significant gain is because it addresses all these little things in one package which by themselves could be too less to notice but added up are something you could put your finger on.
For some reason we derailed the thread in this back and forth about KnNs and MAF and other stuff which is off subject and could be a thread on it's own so i'll stay out of it since i feel i got carried away and turned this into something else rather than what was meant for.
considering the fact that the maf and map sensor serve the same purposes I am going to assume you have no idea what you are talking about. So yes overoiling the filter can damage either of these types of sensors. also this thread is exactly what he asked for which is still what we are debating, and again I will say it. A k&n filter is an absolute waste of money, reducing the solid restrictions in the intake tube will show a increase but again not much. My examples were meant to be exactly that, an example.
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considering the fact that the maf and map sensor serve the same purposes I am going to assume you have no idea what you are talking about. So yes overoiling the filter can damage either of these types of sensors. also this thread is exactly what he asked for which is still what we are debating, and again I will say it. A k&n filter is an absolute waste of money, reducing the solid restrictions in the intake tube will show a increase but again not much. My examples were meant to be exactly that, an example.
yeah genius, you really nailed it with that map and maf serve the same purpose (and i'm the one who has no idea)
find the map on your Jeep then tell me how the oil gets there and go lurk some more on those sites you've got your info from and see what they mean when they say it will damage the heated element on the maf sensor (you can also ask what's the difference between maf and map, you might find someone there to tell you if you didn't piss anybody off)
Jeeps run with oil in the airbox from the valve cover lot more than the oil on the filter - how many failed MAPs have you seen?
and read the whole thread before posting dyno results of your dad's 900hp truck.
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yeah genius, you really nailed it with that map and maf serve the same purpose (and i'm the one who has no idea)
find the map on your Jeep then tell me how the oil gets there and go lurk some more on those sites you've got your info from and see what they mean when they say it will damage the heated element on the maf sensor (you can also ask what's the difference between maf and map, you might find someone there to tell you if you didn't piss anybody off)
Jeeps run with oil in the airbox from the valve cover lot more than the oil on the filter - how many failed MAPs have you seen?
and read the whole thread before posting dyno results of your dad's 900hp truck.
:roflol: :thumbsup:
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considering the fact that the maf and map sensor serve the same purposes I am going to assume you have no idea what you are talking about. So yes overoiling the filter can damage either of these types of sensors. also this thread is exactly what he asked for which is still what we are debating, and again I will say it. A k&n filter is an absolute waste of money, reducing the solid restrictions in the intake tube will show a increase but again not much. My examples were meant to be exactly that, an example.
actually, i dont care much to here about your truck or how much hp it has. So no, most of what you are saying is pretty much off topic. I asked a simple question. Boy, no -1? haha
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whats an LC1?
here's a good tool that let's you play with a few variables and calculates the power output as well as CFM flow.
http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/MSDInjectorV1/main.html
on the right hand side it will show you the CFM rating of the intake, lb/hr for fuel and air (based on air temp) and estimated HP. The injector rating is most likely calculated considering 80% duty cycle for the required lb/hr in fuel (the injector rating is given for a specific pressure when the injector is always open and is called static flow) so that's why you will see a higher number in the injector flow size range compared to the required lb/hr fuel flow.
i used these numbers to get to the HP of the 1990 2.5L tbi
Displacement: 150 cu.in.
Max rpm: 5250 (i used the max power rpm, but you can use redline rpm to find out the max cfm, however the VE goes down past the 5250 point)
Inlet air temp: 75 deg F
Estimated VE: 77
Number of Injectors: 1 (since is TBI)
Air/Fuel Ratio (again at max power which is in open loop): 13.5
BSFC (brake specific): 0.48
Power output for all that is calculated to 117.5HP - pretty close to what the stock rating is of 117 for your year.
Now let's say you improve your intake flow and the VE increases to 79 (by 2% which is attainable) and also reduce the intake air temp to 70F by using a cold air inlet for the airbox - the resulting power is 121.7HP - a 4hp increase - but look at the injector size high limit - it changed from 70.5 to 73 lb/hr - that is the difference in flow you need to compensate - on the top left of the page under operations drop down select flow rating and use 14.5 psi as old pressure, 70.5 as the starting flow, put in 15.6 as the new pressure and click calculate - the resulting flow will be 73.10lb/hr - pretty close to what the calculations came at. You can also try to go a bit richer to 16psi fuel pressure, that will give you a flow of 74.10 lb/hr and a resulting power of 123 (so another 2 hp) - but keep in mind that this is an exercise meant to show how the output power varies with air-flow, real world is different so that's why is best to take baby steps and use seat of the pants dyno to get an idea of where you're at. also visual check of the exhaust gasses - you don't want blowing black smoke which would mean you're too rich.
But this will give you an idea of what to expect from certain changes (you can also change your max rpm to 6000 let's say if you want to see what a perf cam will give you, again would be approximate but gives a good picture of what the mods give you).
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yeah genius, you really nailed it with that map and maf serve the same purpose (and i'm the one who has no idea)
find the map on your Jeep then tell me how the oil gets there and go lurk some more on those sites you've got your info from and see what they mean when they say it will damage the heated element on the maf sensor (you can also ask what's the difference between maf and map, you might find someone there to tell you if you didn't piss anybody off)
Jeeps run with oil in the airbox from the valve cover lot more than the oil on the filter - how many failed MAPs have you seen?
and read the whole thread before posting dyno results of your dad's 900hp truck.
wow, you just have NO clue. maybe you need to take a mechanic 101 class or get a 4 cycle engine for dummies book. ps i could care less if i piss you off, when your wrong your wrong. you have no basis for your arguement you just buy into the hype..... maybe you should try reading the thread rather than jumping the gun, just because I can actually post facts and you cant gives you no reason to try and be a dick.
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Wow normally this is a pretty civil board, you are taking this way to seriously,
You both have an opinion... They are not the same. And won't be. Get over it.
Dave
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wow, you just have NO clue. maybe you need to take a mechanic 101 class or get a 4 cycle engine for dummies book. ps i could care less if i piss you off, when your wrong your wrong. you have no basis for your arguement you just buy into the hype..... maybe you should try reading the thread rather than jumping the gun, just because I can actually post facts and you cant gives you no reason to try and be a dick.
:roflol:
I won't bother answering that on the same tone, I'll look into the mechanics course though - thanks for the tip. Since you read that book do you mind telling me what page can i find the info about MAP, just so i don't have to read the whole thing. Thanks in advance.
you might want to read this again:
actually, i dont care much to here about your truck or how much hp it has. So no, most of what you are saying is pretty much off topic. I asked a simple question. Boy, no -1? haha
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but look at the injector size high limit - it changed from 70.5 to 73 lb/hr - that is the difference in flow you need to compensate - on the top left of the page under operations drop down select flow rating and use 14.5 psi as old pressure, 70.5 as the starting flow, put in 15.6 as the new pressure and click calculate - the resulting flow will be 73.10lb/hr
good site.. but from my research last year the lb/hour for the tbi injector is about 48lb/hr... so something is off....
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3563.0.html
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good site.. but from my research last year the lb/hour for the tbi injector is about 48lb/hr... so something is off....
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3563.0.html
could be, i have no idea what the value is for TBI - is more on the exercise side to help understand the differences. 48 seems on the low end though unless the duty cycle for the TBI is over 80% but even so based on the top power of 117HP@5250 you still need 56lb/hr fuel delivery to achieve that power (that is not corrected for the injector duty cycle, is the total fuel to be delivered for 117HP with those values i posted). Also the 4 injectors for the MPI are 17.4, so if you time that by 4 (since tbi has only one) it's close to 70lb/hr - like i said, not sure what the actual values are for TBI but it seems to be working on MPI. I'm probably missing something on the TBI calculations - I'll do a bit of research later tonight see what i can find. Did you actually find the rating of the Jeep TBI injector or you were comparing the other injectors from larger engines - is it possible that some of those are dual barrel and they have 2 injectors? - again, i could be missing something on the TBI so this could be off - let me know where you got the info about the TBI injector.
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:roflol:
I won't bother answering that on the same tone, I'll look into the mechanics course though - thanks for the tip. Since you read that book do you mind telling me what page can i find the info about MAP, just so i don't have to read the whole thing. Thanks in advance.
you might want to read this again:
Ill give you that one, ya got me.... and yes I did miss that post... ha... anyhow im not really sure why this turned into a pissing contest considering I was agreeing with most of your ideas on the intake.... guess the main reason I get so worked up over the air filter thing is that I have had more than my share of problems with the k&n and similar types... just wanted to warn you more than anything and hopefully save you and others the headache.
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Ill give you that one, ya got me.... and yes I did miss that post... ha... anyhow im not really sure why this turned into a pissing contest considering I was agreeing with most of your ideas on the intake.... guess the main reason I get so worked up over the air filter thing is that I have had more than my share of problems with the k&n and similar types... just wanted to warn you more than anything and hopefully save you and others the headache.
ok, peace then - no point in arguing - we can agree to disagree.
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ok, peace then - no point in arguing - we can agree to disagree.
sounds good. :beers:
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ive read through this thread-not word for word-but thoroughly enough. i did check quadratec's site to see if any cold air intakes were available...but they only are for 91 and later. im not sure what the difference was in 89-90. if he fabs his own "cold air intake" this should, in theory allow him to put on any cone filter at the end of it...not just K&N correct? as long as he knew the size of the opening correct?
lastly id like to touch on something that ive seen in multiple threads here-the issue of people pulling out their cold air intakes (be it K&N or other brands) to swap with the stock box when wheeling for fear of dirt/dust pulling past the filter: i run the AEM unit and ive gotten that filter pretty well covered (not caked mind you) in dirt-i pulled it off to clean it and when it was off i took a moist napkin and ran it inside the tube to see if it would show dirt....came up clean. and has every time ive cleaned it. this leads me to think that perhaps the overall amount of dirt/dust it would take to pull through these modern day filters would have to be massive-something to perhaps consider if you're wheeling through the dunes..but maybe not for any other terrain.
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- is it possible that some of those are dual barrel and they have 2 injectors? - again, i could be missing something on the TBI so this could be off - let me know where you got the info about the TBI injector.
4.3l v and bigger used 2 injectors for tbi ( for example the 5.0l v8 used 2 50#/hr injectors (rated at 20psi which is higher than stock (flow machine test)).. i got the rating for the jeep injector from a seller of the injector (was rated at 84cc in 15 seconds at 20psi (see post 6 of linked thread))... i don't have the time now to re-straighten out my old research out but the thread i linked to has most of the info i found.
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ive read through this thread-not word for word-but thoroughly enough. i did check quadratec's site to see if any cold air intakes were available...but they only are for 91 and later. im not sure what the difference was in 89-90. if he fabs his own "cold air intake" this should, in theory allow him to put on any cone filter at the end of it...not just K&N correct? as long as he knew the size of the opening correct?
lastly id like to touch on something that ive seen in multiple threads here-the issue of people pulling out their cold air intakes (be it K&N or other brands) to swap with the stock box when wheeling for fear of dirt/dust pulling past the filter: i run the AEM unit and ive gotten that filter pretty well covered (not caked mind you) in dirt-i pulled it off to clean it and when it was off i took a moist napkin and ran it inside the tube to see if it would show dirt....came up clean. and has every time ive cleaned it. this leads me to think that perhaps the overall amount of dirt/dust it would take to pull through these modern day filters would have to be massive-something to perhaps consider if you're wheeling through the dunes..but maybe not for any other terrain.
the TBI t/b is different and i believe thicker (larger diam where the adapter on top goes) and also if i remember correctly it has 3 screws that connect the elbow to the t/b (or something similar, but the elbow can be reused i would think).
you are correct about installing a cone filter, although in that case the intake air temperature will be higher since has passed the thru the rad, so for example if outside air is 70F and the one that passed thru the rad (at engine operating temp) is 100F you can potentially lose about 5HP so unless the cone is enclosed is better to have a high flow filter in the stock airbox and make sure to get cold air from in front of the rad. The cone filter will flow better however, so best case scenario would be an enclosed (or at least shielded) cone filter.
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4.3l v and bigger used 2 injectors for tbi ( for example the 5.0l v8 used 2 50#/hr injectors (rated at 20psi which is higher than stock (flow machine test)).. i got the rating for the jeep injector from a seller of the injector (was rated at 84cc in 15 seconds at 20psi (see post 6 of linked thread))... i don't have the time now to re-straighten out my old research out but the thread i linked to has most of the info i found.
yeah, dunno what the deal is with tbi - tried to get the required flow from here as well http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4 (there are other ones out there, pretty much the same thing) - if you use 117HP, 0.48BSFC, 1 injector and 80% duty cycle will come up as 70.2 required static injector flow - make the duty cycle 100% and that gives the uncorrected required fuel for that power at 56.16lb/hr and that is how much fuel needs to be delivered for the air flow at max power. the 84cc/15sec=336cc/min=32lb/hr - it's about half of what's required, that's why i went on a guess maybe it is for a dual barrel TBI. Dunno what the deal is, like i said i could be missing something on the TBI injector rating (maybe they are rated differently) but as far as fuel delivery goes that's how much it needs (56lb/hr) to make 117HP (give or take a bit as the BSFC of 0.48 is a guess but should be pretty close).
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i was thinking this morning.. and with mpfi you have 1 injector for each cylinder so 19 *4= 76 which is what that program is wanting out of the 1 injector tbi... but realistically not all the cylinders need fuel at the same time so need less at one time...
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i was thinking this morning.. and with mpfi you have 1 injector for each cylinder so 19 *4= 76 which is what that program is wanting out of the 1 injector tbi... but realistically not all the cylinders need fuel at the same time so need less at one time...
that's what i was trying to figure out and tried to get my head around it but the actual total fuel needed is in fact related to the CFM air flow, can be 1 cyl or 8 cyl, you get the same amount of airflow (roughly) at a certain rpm for the same displacement to which you add the amount of required fuel - just no way to make the power otherwise. Same for the number of injectors, seems to be working for 4, 6 or 8 injectors so i am assuming is the same deal if you have 1 injector - needs to deliver a certain amount of fuel. the only variable there is duty cycle, but the minimum is still 56lb/hr (at 100% which never happens). I could be missing something fundamental but otherwise those numbers seem to be in sync. The only thing that i don't know is if the factory rating is somehow different. I looked around and didn't find anything on the 2.5L TBI injector.
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ive read through this thread-not word for word-but thoroughly enough. i did check quadratec's site to see if any cold air intakes were available...but they only are for 91 and later. im not sure what the difference was in 89-90. if he fabs his own "cold air intake" this should, in theory allow him to put on any cone filter at the end of it...not just K&N correct? as long as he knew the size of the opening correct?
lastly id like to touch on something that ive seen in multiple threads here-the issue of people pulling out their cold air intakes (be it K&N or other brands) to swap with the stock box when wheeling for fear of dirt/dust pulling past the filter: i run the AEM unit and ive gotten that filter pretty well covered (not caked mind you) in dirt-i pulled it off to clean it and when it was off i took a moist napkin and ran it inside the tube to see if it would show dirt....came up clean. and has every time ive cleaned it. this leads me to think that perhaps the overall amount of dirt/dust it would take to pull through these modern day filters would have to be massive-something to perhaps consider if you're wheeling through the dunes..but maybe not for any other terrain.
Yes you can fab your own intake, I personally have used various items such as alum piping to pvc and anything else we could come up with. I also have made my own airbox for several vehicles that was usually twice the size as stock and allowed me to use the largest paper element available that would fit into the engine bay airbox included. no experience with aem filters but glad to here it actually filters well.
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only way i could find info on flow rates of the jeep tbi injector was to contact a vender that did flow tests. weird thing is that that 32lb/hr was at 20 psi so if that's adjusted for the stock 14.5psi you get 27.25lb/hr.. something is different here... i looked at my email again from the vender and they had listed that for the 5.0l chevy injector it flowed 92cc/15seconds which they said would be 52lb/hr where the converter on the site you linked to would rate it at 35lb/hr. somewhere here... and what you said about cfm to lb/hr makes sense....
"The 7747-64 Flows 84cc on my ASNU Machine On Test E @ 20psi. These flow as follows on the same test:
5235203...81cc...47lb/hr.....$34.99
5235279...92cc...50lb/hr.....$34.99
5235206..103cc...55lb/hr.....$39.99
17084327...112cc...68lb/hr...$49.99 (out of stock)
Hope this helps you out."
maybe that "test E" means something that would make it make sense...
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i was thinking this morning.. and with mpfi you have 1 injector for each cylinder so 19 *4= 76 which is what that program is wanting out of the 1 injector tbi... but realistically not all the cylinders need fuel at the same time so need less at one time...
that's what i was trying to figure out and tried to get my head around it but the actual total fuel needed is in fact related to the CFM air flow, can be 1 cyl or 8 cyl, you get the same amount of airflow (roughly) at a certain rpm for the same displacement to which you add the amount of required fuel - just no way to make the power otherwise. Same for the number of injectors, seems to be working for 4, 6 or 8 injectors so i am assuming is the same deal if you have 1 injector - needs to deliver a certain amount of fuel. the only variable there is duty cycle, but the minimum is still 56lb/hr (at 100% which never happens). I could be missing something fundamental but otherwise those numbers seem to be in sync. The only thing that i don't know is if the factory rating is somehow different. I looked around and didn't find anything on the 2.5L TBI injector.
here's a good article about TBI i just found, seems to be pointing in the same direction with one difference as the duty cycle is mentioned at 85%
http://www.dynamicefi.com/TBI_Fueling.php
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One thing to remember about TBI, Its the American version of Bosch
CIS (Continious Injection System) If you scope the injector with the
engine running you should see the injector signal at a constant trigger
rate that increases Amplitude and frequency as the throttle is opened
and decreases as throttle closes. Its not "timed" to the engine crank position.
In certain applications it can provide better performance than a MPI becasue most MPI
are not timed injection either they are gang fire and timed to engine position. Which
means the injector fires on a "dry" hole every other time it fires.
http://sdsefi.com/techseq.htm give a better description than me.
Also I think their EFi computer is one of hte best out there for
a stand alone controller for folks like us. For racing anyway, their system
does not focus on emissions and the idle control is very basic. But this thing is
totally K.I.S.S. has just exactly what the engine needs to run and nothing more.
It would be the easiest way I can think of to convert a TBI to MPI for the typical off
road vehicle.
Dave
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so it doesnt look like there is a bunch of room down there to change the inlet tube that goes into the filter box to the front of the radiator. You think there is enough space to put in a tube and then flex it to the sheet metal?
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so it doesnt look like there is a bunch of room down there to change the inlet tube that goes into the filter box to the front of the radiator. You think there is enough space to put in a tube and then flex it to the sheet metal?
i didn't understand the question - can you explain in a bit more detail please.
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I just removed the tube from the air box to the front sheet metal.
Made sure both holes were big enough an let it go.
So far no inspection droid has noticed...
Dave
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i didn't understand the question - can you explain in a bit more detail please.
of course, you know when you said to put a 2.5" to 3" tube to replace the current one? It doesnt look like there is too much room to fit a bigger on in there. IDK, havent tried yet. But thats just what it looks like.
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of course, you know when you said to put a 2.5" to 3" tube to replace the current one? It doesnt look like there is too much room to fit a bigger on in there. IDK, havent tried yet. But thats just what it looks like.
i see - you mean on the sheetmetal under the headlight where the square opening is? i'll have a look on mine tomorrow (i have a day off :dance:) and will report back.
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well im sure i can cut a bigger opening, BUT im not sure a 3" tube will fit in that space?
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I pointed this out before but,,, If you have a tube in there you will
easily fill the airbox up with water if you hit too deep or fast. I did it once,
luckily the air filter stopped the water from making it too far...
I think that's the biggest advantage of a snorkel, the cold air intake above the water line... :)
Dave
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well, i just think its too bad that I wont be driving through any lakes. :P
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I did it hitting about 1' of water at about 40 mph. Came around a corner and there
was a plugged drain. Sucked enough water to stall the engine but it didn't get through the air filter.
The way the stock inlet tube was made it trapped about 1 qt in the airbox... I think the bow-wave
off teh tire is what did it... My bumper has a set of tabs on it now to protect the front from that happening again.
Dave
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Wow, that just sounds very unfortunate. Ive never had a problem with water. I mean I've driven through much more than a foot of water. Never a problem.
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The jeep dealers in 94 and 95 were removing the tubes up here in
Oregon under a TSB because they were replacing too many engines...
Of course I didn't have a lift kit on at that time and a stock YJ is
about the same height as a subaru....
Funny thing, My 85 toyota got recalled for the air tube and they put one
in with a funky plastic bulb on it for the water issues..
Dave
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Yeah, I'll im doing is making the tube bigger in diameter and replacing the smaller rectangular one. Either way, they would both act in the same manner i assume.
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just got my fram air hog in.
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Found a Spectre Performance Cold Air Intake that the rice burners use. Mounted up just fine to my tbi intake .Used there mounting stand-off kit . This raised my intake roughly 8" sits right under hood support rod on driver side . Tried to load pic but says file is to large.
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have any pics? ho does it connect to the tbi.. the main thing that makes it more difficult is that you have the wires for the injector that have to make it through if you remove the plastic thing that the stock intake clips onto....
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send me our e-mail address for pics the intake attaches to the existing snap'on tbi cover with a hose clamp.
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you can go to www.photobucket.com and open an account - then you can share your pics on this forum using the IMG tags (click on share on the pic you uploaded on photobucket, copy the img link and paste it in your post)
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Thanks Sharpxman, below are pics of intake in next post. cost about 60 bucks
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here you go(http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr240/robertsiii/IMG00012-20091122-1341-1.jpg)(http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr240/robertsiii/IMG00013-20091122-1342.jpg)
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aw that makes sense... your motor is so clean :eek:... that's going to be sucking some real hot air if your going slow / crawling down a trail. but its hard to get much better without a snorkel.. thanks for the pics. :thumb:
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Interesting your alternator is way up high ,
Mine is about crankshaft level on the passenger side on my 94.
Is that a AC pump or a air pump below it?
Dave
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thats the stock alternator location for the tbi 2.5l with v belts.. idk about the bottom (they didn't offer ac with the 2.5l with tbi iirc).
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can you turn the breather around so it goes over the eng and behind the alt?
if you run water at all I recommend it
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Pics were taken right after i a tear down to replace intake/exhaust gasket , Not worried about high temp, running 160 themistat and no ERG. My temp on highway @70 is 170 Ive made some deep water crossings at low speeds with no problems. Should be going to elec. fan soon . :clap: That is my a /c compressor (aftermarket) only run in hottest summer months in sunny fl.
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this may be geting abit off topic.. but did you notice any significant difference without the egr?
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This bullitin was in my warranty class, so if you guys are still under warrenty on anything and you bring your vehicle in for service remember to clean you airbox and replace your filter with the factory one. also note that they will NOT void your warranty unless they find damage... this bullitin was in my chrysler jeep subaru vw course this week. funny thing is that we will clean and reoil your filter for you if you ask.... but if it damages something its on you! pretty dumb if you ask me but whatever. Anyhow in one weeks time we have replaced two rear axles on tj's both were lifted one was a six cylinder.
Bulletin No.: 04-07-30-013B
Date: February 01, 2007
INFORMATION
Subject:
Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Use of an Excessively/Over-Oiled Aftermarket, Reusable Air Filter
Models:
2007 and Prior GM Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2007 and Prior Saturn Models
2003-2007 HUMMER H2
2006-2007 HUMMER H3
2005-2007 Saab 9-7X
Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to add models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013A (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).
The use of an excessively/over-oiled aftermarket, reusable air filter may result in:
Service Engine Soon (SES) light on
Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)
Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range
The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over-oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with an OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
The use of an aftermarket reusable air filter DOES NOT void the vehicle's warranty.
If an aftermarket reusable air filter is used, technicians should inspect the MAF sensor element and the air induction hose for contamination of oil prior to making warranty repairs.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns (related to the MAF sensor being contaminated with oil) that are the result of the use of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over-oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
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temp. dropped 20 degrees ,quicker exceleration at low end , more speed at top end .
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:beers:
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I did it hitting about 1' of water at about 40 mph. Came around a corner and there
was a plugged drain. Sucked enough water to stall the engine but it didn't get through the air filter.
The way the stock inlet tube was made it trapped about 1 qt in the airbox... I think the bow-wave
off teh tire is what did it... My bumper has a set of tabs on it now to protect the front from that happening again.
Dave
a bit off topic but do you have pics of those tabs. id be interested to see if i could do the same for my TJ if it in fact helps prevent too much water from coming up into the engine bay. ive gone through many a deep puddle and havent had a problem yet but one can never be too careful.
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temp. dropped 20 degrees ,quicker exceleration at low end , more speed at top end .
did you just disconnect/ plug the vacuum line for the egr valve or is there more to it..
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a bit off topic but do you have pics of those tabs. id be interested to see if i could do the same for my TJ if it in fact helps prevent too much water from coming up into the engine bay. ive gone through many a deep puddle and havent had a problem yet but one can never be too careful.
Here is a pic, Hosted from Photobucket...
I built the bumper from scratch, you can see the wing almost touching the root of the fender. It seems to keep the wave off the tire from flooding the winch area and piling into the grill/radiator.
(http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/dwtaylorpdx/Jeep/Bumper.jpg)
Dave
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Chardrc, i pluged the line. there are some egr valve cap-off plates and tube plates on line or you can fab them your self, just use gaskets for templates. im still waiting to see MPG before going any futher. if i lose 1 MPG i can live with that.