4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: quicksand on January 20, 2011, 10:16:19 PM
-
I have great results on my 4 Banger, with all its mods, accel coil, accel 8mm wires, NGK plugs gapped at .037, HOME BREWED cold air intake, bigger air tube which is insulated, 4.0L TB bored to 57mm, Custom TB Spacer, Bored out manifold intake, Magnaflow muffler, and free flow cat. All these little mods add up as a whole and not one mod by itself is going to perform well without the other. NOW about the MODIFIED STOCK AIR BOX. I have through trail and error experience that you can manually fine tune you air intake. Of course I have a k&N flat panel filter, and the front of the box is cut out along with a heat shield from the box to the outer edge of rad. I have also removed my headlight bezels. I am getting ambient air from around the headlight right into the air filter box. The removal of plastic chrome rings on my rig looks pretty cool, I guess its because my jeep is white and it gives it that competition look. BACK TO THE AIR BOX. I also cut a hole on the bottom of box which is a exact macth the the hole in the metal fender, right where the upper shock mount is. I have never had a problem with water or dust due to the shock mount acts as a shield. I am getting instant availible air from this bottom hole for crawling or off the line. Now I also cut out the right side of the box, but only towards the front half. So I get instant air from bottom hole and ram air at higher speeds from front and side of box. I have noticed air presure is built up towards the back of the box as I go faster. This is good. Lots of air but keeping it pressurized. I did one more thing. This works really nice. I cut to shape a plate that fits the side cutout n the box that slides back and fourth. It has a slotted hole to allow any adjustments. It has a thumb screw for quick and easy adjustments. I can fine tune my air intake either for faster take offs and real smooth response, or for more torque by closing the sliding plate a bit. I have noticed that any small increment in the slide makes a big change in response. Its like I can adjust my torque. Or adjust for MPG. Or just the right sweet spot. I just think how can one aftermarket cold air intake fit all power plants with different mods. Do we all have the same modifications on all our engines, or do we need taylored air intake for your specific engine upgrades. ADJUSTABLE POWER & TORQUE. WORKS GREAT. Happy 4 Wheeling.
-
you need to post some pics as i didn't understand all of it
I have noticed air presure is built up towards the back of the box as I go faster.
explain this one a little bit more please
-
Yeah I do not have any pics right now, and its nothing inpressive to look at, but maybe if you like, I can answer any question you have right now. Like what specific part are you needing more detail. Where maybe I could explain in different words or detail. I can take pics in the future, but I do not know when that will be. Right now I am so busy. I love to right about and talk about jeeps and gears and stuff. It is a pleasure.
-
Yeah I do not have any pics right now, and its nothing inpressive to look at, but maybe if you like, I can answer any question you have right now. Like what specific part are you needing more detail. Where maybe I could explain in different words or detail. I can take pics in the future, but I do not know when that will be. Right now I am so busy. I love to right about and talk about jeeps and gears and stuff. It is a pleasure.
can you explain this one in more detail
I have noticed air presure is built up towards the back of the box as I go faster.
how did you notice that or what did you use to gauge the difference?
-
is this all by dyno that you can tell your increase in torque, hp etc? or is this all seat of the pants? i have the intake, 62mm tb, headers, banks exhaust, tb spacer. there is a difference, but not that much. Even seat of the pants i could hardly tell.
-
Seat off the pants dyno of course. Hey so what if dyno says 8 HP or something like that and you feel nothing or very little. I rather have a dyno that says 3 hp and it feels like 10. Anyway the modified air box fine tunes your air pressure coming in and the amount. I believe the jeeps main brain then adjust for fuel delivery. I know when I am close to that sweet spot, my pedal seems to deliver fuel more precise, thus increasing power. Its like if I want gas just step on the pedal for the required amount. Is not that the way it sould be. You do not want to step on pedal and get more air than fuel. You need a close macth right. AIR, FUEL, SPARK.
-
Sounds like he just cut a bunch of holes into the air box.
Although, if you had a solenoid that could control a vane vent., that might be cool. Would need to be water tight though.
Or maybe use a SLP Flow-Rite Intake Kit for a snowmobile...
-
this is so random that can't be replicated (and not much to go by without any measurements or pictures)
I'm also going to quit asking questions since they're ignored anyway (the "noticed pressure is built towards the back of the box" - how??? I asked twice but no response)
For a boost in power and torque you can always put in 2 Tylenol and 1 Aspirin pills in the tank (not to be combined with alcohol) - the results are amazing (you can't adjust it though, that's the downside).
-
Yes you could say there is bunch of holes or cutouts, but the cutout on the right side of the box has a sliding plate to allow more or less air in. As far as pressure build up, because its the front of the box thats cut, and the front right side, pressure is build up towards the back of the box. The back is mainly a closed container, except for the one hole at bottom of box, right above the shock mount. Thats where the pressure builds up and inters thru the filter, close to the intake tube. Works pretty good. Sorry for not getting back to you sooner
-
I guess its like a ram funnel affect, or air tunnel / scoop. with adjustable setting plate.
-
wouldnt it be easier and maybe even better to just extend the air tube out of the vehicle...a snorkel if you will...and then you could get as much fresh, cooler air that would be forced into the snorkel's mouth as you needed. far better than holes in the air box. Also, this would address the watertight integrity raised by Jeffy.
-
That is a good piont, it you could keep it looking nice some how. Those old hot rodders had something right with there hood scoops and such. But they were able to adjust there fuel and air mix right on there carbs.
-
UPDATE ON ADJUSTABLE MODIFIED FACTORY AIR BOX- After trail, and adjustments again again along with many runs down the road. I finnally got my factory air box, adjusted just right. Through using its adjustable air intake plate. Found that exact sweet spot as air is being ramed in. Just the right presure and just the right amount of air for my current mods. After a few runs the main computer made the adjustments in fuel curve to macth the air intake. I tell you what the timing and amount of fuel being delivered along with the air flow, power and torque are at optimum performance. It is true more air makes more power, SO does more fuel especially if you have the exact air/ fuel ratio. I and getting better gas milage, instant off line response, top speed along with torque. So again I say not one cold air filter fits all for optimum results. I highly recomend some type of adjustable air filter intake box. I cant wait to drive my jeep again. FAST and RESPONSIVE. WOW !
-
All this talk without a single PIC...what gives?
-
As far as pressure build up, because its the front of the box thats cut, and the front right side, pressure is build up towards the back of the box. The back is mainly a closed container, except for the one hole at bottom of box, right above the shock mount. Thats where the pressure builds up and inters thru the filter, close to the intake tube.
How are you measuring this pressure building up?
Are you using an A/F gauge to measure the air/fuel ratio? Can you expand on how you know your timing and fuel delivery are at optimum performance?
-
No numbers, or gauges, seat off the pants. Physical results in performance and results. Its in the way she moves. It would be nice to get this measured and documented. This is working really nice.
-
can we get some pics of this? I still think a cold air intake or better yet a snorkel would generate the same results. esp a snorkel since it is gathering all the air without anything restricting it.
-
can we get some pics of this?
All this talk without a single PIC...what gives?
good luck with that
How are you measuring this pressure building up?
with this one too... (getting a straight answer)
-
I am trying my best. I dont like to blow any smoke.
-
use the poor man's dyno:
pick a flat stretch of hwy long enough that you reach top speed. go both ways and write down the mph, add them up and divide by 2.
then do whatever you do to your airbox and repeat the test. if your average speed is the same then there's no gain, if it's more or less then you can calculate the hp increase (or decrease).
to be relevant should be the same outside temp and relatively low wind.
when you're done take some pictures and post them along with your results :wall:
-
Sounds like a plan stan.
-
use the poor man's dyno:
pick a flat stretch of hwy long enough that you reach top speed. go both ways and write down the mph, add them up and divide by 2.
then do whatever you do to your airbox and repeat the test. if your average speed is the same then there's no gain, if it's more or less then you can calculate the hp increase (or decrease).
to be relevant should be the same outside temp and relatively low wind.
when you're done take some pictures and post them along with your results :wall:
But can we trust him? MY GOD, CAN WE TRUST HIM???!!!
-
MAYBE ! Trust no man.
-
But can we trust him? MY GOD, CAN WE TRUST HIM???!!!
we'll have to wait for the results (and pictures)
-
Man I am so trying to send some cell phone pics. I have tried like 8 times. It tells me it wont accept bmp or something like that. This is getting frustrating. I wish I was more a lil puter savvy. Maybe I could email them to somebody. HELP.
-
convert them to jpg on your computer. Open them with Paint (from Start>all programs>accessories>paint) and then select File>Save as and under save as type drop down box on the bottom select JPG. then upload them on photobucket (you'll need to register and create an account). once you did that you can select them and then generate HTML code and copy the IMG tags for bulletin boards and just paste that in your post.
-
Man that sounds scary. I will take a peek. Thanks.
-
Man that sounds scary. I will take a peek. Thanks.
here's some help on how to post pictures from photobucket
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,8344.msg68466.html#msg68466
-
OK I got as far as converting to jpg and downsized my pics to web small. The message I get back is download folder is full. HUH !
-
OK I got as far as converting to jpg and downsized my pics to web small. The message I get back is download folder is full. HUH !
where do you get that message from?
-
don't downsize the picture.. downsizing is usually for thumbnail pics... just upload them to photobucket, not directly to this site.
-
I will try that later. Thanks
-
Just tried again, I got as far as getting a few pics on photo bucket, I then sent them to my pics on my computer, and tried to send. It told me again file is full. I am going to take a break. I will learn this one day.
-
you don't send them anywhere once they're on photobucket. go to your photobucket account, click on a picture you want to share. Once that pic is larger and the only one on the pb page, look to the right for the url address contained within image tags (img). Copy that url with the img tags and paste it into your message on here. That's it.
-
OK I will try that later, Thanks bounty hunter, Hope you are doing well.
-
I might just be being silly, but are you running the stock tubing?
-
No stock tubing, its a 3in after market put together from a old neon in two pcs. Also wrapped in reflective insulated wrap, to keep air temps down.
-
Here is another try, remember in raw form proto type, works great.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/air7.jpg)(http://http[IMG]http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/air6.jpg)(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/air2.jpg)(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/air6.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/OurjeepKB.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/air9.jpg)
-
Well I got that far, Remember that is a proto type in raw form, needs cleaning up, I do run a bigger air tube with insulation, bored 4.0L TB, custom TB spacer, accel coil and wires, NGK plugs gapped at .037, catback, magnaflow muffler and of course it does have a K&N filter. Like I said before I am able to adjust my incoming air to adjust for fuel changes. I can get my lil rig real torquey or smooth response with top speeds of 80 to 85mph. I am still tweeking to find sweet spot between power and MPG. Any do not laugh its working nice, I know it does not look impressive.
-
what is the "adjustable" part of the setup?
doesn't look bad at all, not sure why you're all concerned about that.
-
Not to knock you for trying but I think your medicine is more of a sugar pill than anything.
After a round of mods many people thing they unleashed XX amount of HP and TQ, but in reality little if any gains are actual.
-
I understand what you are saying, but I just adjusted my air box again and gained upper RPM torque and using less pedal. Anyway works for me. Happy 4 Wheeling.
-
I understand what you are saying, but I just adjusted my air box again and gained upper RPM torque and using less pedal. Anyway works for me. Happy 4 Wheeling.
what are you adjusting
-
That's an interesting setup.
I guess maybe the front right tire spins and generates some minor air pressure in to the airbox via the hole above the shock. "Tire turbo" -- just coined that term. :whistle:
Would be interesting to see test results on that -- see what air pressure, if any, is measured through the intake hole you cut in the wheel well connecting to the air-box. The other holes in the box would probably sabotage any kind of accurate readings.
Dirt, road debris, water are probably a strong disincentive to cut in to a wheel well for better air flow -- why maybe risk an engine just for a few horsepower?
Then there's: If you want a little external air pressure in to the intake, get yourself some kind of ram air hood setup; it'll be cleaner.
Still an interesting concept, though
-
I still don't see what's adjustable though
-
If you want a little external air pressure in to the intake, get yourself some kind of ram air hood setup; it'll be cleaner.
i've been saying that since the start of this thread and he hasnt responded as to why he doesnt want to do that.
-
The adjustable part is a small sliding plate on the right side of air box, I know its hard to see from pic. I need a better pic of that. It allows more air in or less. Also affects the pressure of the incoming air. It is adjustable by a thumb screw.
-
The adjustable part is a small sliding plate on the right side of air box, I know its hard to see from pic. I need a better pic of that. It allows more air in or less. Also affects the pressure of the incoming air. It is adjustable by a thumb screw.
BTW is your TJ a 2.5 4Banger or the later model 2.4L that users a Mass Air Flow sensor?
-
BTW is your TJ a 2.5 4Banger or the later model 2.4L that users a Mass Air Flow sensor?
It's a 2.5L. 2.4L's have the big intake and the TB is on the top.
-
Thats right 2.5L. Zoom Zoom
-
The adjustable part is a small sliding plate on the right side of air box, I know its hard to see from pic. I need a better pic of that. It allows more air in or less. Also affects the pressure of the incoming air. It is adjustable by a thumb screw.
why would you want less air? you can always not press the pedal that much (that's how you control the air btw). The mixture is controlled by the O2 sensor in closed loop (so if you give it less air it won't make it richer just have less power) and by a predefined table in open loop - but for that you add fuel, removing air will just choke it so there's less power available. I would suggest reading a little bit about BSFC and how that relates to air admitted in the intake, less air means less fuel that you can burn and such less HP.
not to rain on your parade but other than the cold air from the wheelwell everything else is useless - I can't really tell you though if the air in the wheelwell is hot air from the engine or cold air from outside, but one thing i would be careful with is when you run into deep water or drive thru standing water so it doesn't get sucked in the engine.
-
Yes sir, I have been thru about knee high water or higher, slowly with no problem. I do not know exactly as a technical science how this works, but my torque and power is altered just by adjusting the air intake volume and pressure by the air plate.
-
Here is a bet(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/adjustableplate.jpg)ter pic of this small yet so responsive plate
-
Silly looking but it works for me.
-
Silly looking but it works for me.
I guess that's all that matters.
When I switched from a rock-it-city air tube with a K&N to a stock TJ set up with a paper filter I did not notice any change in performance.
-
Yes sir, I have been thru about knee high water or higher, slowly with no problem. I do not know exactly as a technical science how this works, but my torque and power is altered just by adjusting the air intake volume and pressure by the air plate.
but the question remains how did you gathered it changes. I mean don't get me wrong, you will lose power if you choke the intake and if you open it again you will gain it back, if that's what you mean then yes, you're right but that's nothing to adjust (unless for some reason you want less power) - same result if you stick a brick under the pedal and it won't go all the way to the floor, then take it out and your Jeep is flying.
but if it works for you...
-
I wish I could let you drive it and feel the difference. Yes If I open it I will take off the line real quick. But at 55 mph I loose torque, which I need to climb quickly to higher speeds. When its closed a little or let me say when I find the sweet spot, she still takes of quick, but has more torque and reaches higher speeds quicker. Even when I am cruising at 60 mph my pedal is less than 1/4 of the way down. Then when I tap on the pedal just a little you feel torque and she quickly climbs to 70, 75mph and holds 70 uphill on a headwind. She will not hold 65mph uphill or headwind if the box is to far open. All I can say its air pressure. Ofcourse sufficeint amount of air also or yes you would lose power. If its to far closed I but a choke hold on it, then shes bucking not getting enough air. Weird but nice.
-
This is about as hard core as I can get right now, my lil rig is a daily driver and the only(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/quicksand97/our4Banger.jpg) ride I have. I sold our other 2 trucks so I gotta baby her
-
your Jeep looks nice though
-
when you talk about opening and closing something, do you mean the holes you made in the airbox? If so, i'm not really understanding why you would have trouble at higher speed with the holes all the way open..wouldn't that allow more air in??? And will you please tell my why it wouldnt have been better (and safer as far as i can see) for you to have just run the air tube up and out of the engine bay like a snorkel?
-
Yes I am talking about opening and closing that little slide and hole on the right side of the box, and yes if I open it to far I do lose torque at higher speeds. When I lose that torque at higher speeds I am pushing further down on the pedal to get up to 70 mph and leaning forward. Also having to stay further down on the pedal just to maintian that top speed. Its like with it all the way open I have no passing power. When its a little closed or that sweet spot, I have all the passing power I need and more. As far as a box or scoop on the outside I have not got to that piont. I am actually thinking of running / testing some kind of small air tube or funnel affect. Running it from the front of the jeep to inside the engine bay, just in front of the air box. Trying to utilize that air pressure coming in at higher speeds. You know like when you are doing 55 to 70mph and you feel that air pressure when you stick your hand out the window. Thats alot of pressure. Anyway wierd. Trail and error, fun fun.
-
Yes sir, I have been thru about knee high water or higher, slowly with no problem.
Knee high isn't extremely deep, worry that your design could get you hurt in a water crossing. Entire idea is interesting, would be nice to see some actual numbers, but if you say that everything works alright for ya then congrats on finding a way to get a lil more oout of our puny four-bangers...
-
Yes it all adds up, wieght, power, torque, tire size, gears, air/fuel/spark. FUN. Thanks
-
Ref the hole in the bottom of the airbox and the top of the fender, I'd be more worried about water getting in from road spray that from slow water crossings. You can get plenty of air without having to source it from the wheel opening.
-
I have had that hole in the fender well for awhile, Its been thru some heavy down pours and some flooding streets back in houston,Tx. Thus far I have not had any problems. I believe the upper shock mount is acting as a splash shield. Also back in houston I used to go mudding once in awhile and there would be mud everywhere up under the fenders and stuff. That one spot above the shock mount would be fairly clear of mud and stuff. So far so good. Down pours and mud no problem. I understand your thoughts, and concerns. Also my K&N filter stays pretty clean, I clean it about once a year. Thanks
-
Ref the hole in the bottom of the airbox and the top of the fender, I'd be more worried about water getting in from road spray that from slow water crossings. You can get plenty of air without having to source it from the wheel opening.
With my homemade cold air, i got out of this by having the filter mounted high and essentially ontop of the radiator funnel deal, and having tubing run down under the bumper to form an air-ram at speed, but I left the filter in the engine bay open so it won't suck water.
-
Humm, interesting
-
Mr bounty hunter, how do I get hold of you privately?
-
Send a PM or email bountyhunter AT sija.org .
-
Yes I am talking about opening and closing that little slide and hole on the right side of the box, and yes if I open it to far I do lose torque at higher speeds. When I lose that torque at higher speeds I am pushing further down on the pedal to get up to 70 mph and leaning forward. Also having to stay further down on the pedal just to maintian that top speed. Its like with it all the way open I have no passing power. When its a little closed or that sweet spot, I have all the passing power I need and more. As far as a box or scoop on the outside I have not got to that piont. I am actually thinking of running / testing some kind of small air tube or funnel affect. Running it from the front of the jeep to inside the engine bay, just in front of the air box. Trying to utilize that air pressure coming in at higher speeds. You know like when you are doing 55 to 70mph and you feel that air pressure when you stick your hand out the window. Thats alot of pressure. Anyway wierd. Trail and error, fun fun.
Ya, I get it, there is a such thing as having too much air, because if you suck more air than you can burn you can generate turbulence in the intake system which makes it run badly in the high end. I used to have a huge filter w/ a really really short tube mounted on my throttle body and I ran into this problem. It sucks gas too. You really want smooth pressurized airflow.
-
Yes you are right. Finally someone that has experienced the affect of to much air. Your air intake, air volume and pressure sould be somewhat macthed to your spark and fuel. At least close to working operation, such as some horse power gains along with torque. Also maybe better fuel consumption. I know there is a fine line between more power and burning more fuel with it. Hard to find a good balance.
-
gotta comment on this one
Ya, I get it, there is a such thing as having too much air
yes, if you don't have enough fuel - why complain for lack of power then, you want more air so you can burn more fuel = more HP
because if you suck more air than you can burn
you burn fuel not air, same as above - you want more air to burn more fuel to make more power. If your AFR is too high (lean mixture) then you need to fix the fuel delivery
... you can generate turbulence in the intake system which makes it run badly in the high end
i agree with you on the turbulence, but is not b/c of too much air but due to poor intake tubing, keep it smooth and no tight turns or sharp angles and will flow just fine (given that is properly sized as far as diameter)
You really want smooth pressurized airflow.
how do you get pressurized airflow in a normally aspirated engine? smooth yeah, pressurized not so much. you're right about smooth airflow thru the intake tubing, the smoother the flow the less pressure loss so more air into the cylinders, so this kind of contradicts the previous statements (and the opposite goes for turbulence, you get pressure drop and lose VE).
Finally someone that has experienced the affect of to much air. Your air intake, air volume and pressure sould be somewhat macthed to your spark and fuel. At least close to working operation, such as some horse power gains along with torque. Also maybe better fuel consumption. I know there is a fine line between more power and burning more fuel with it. Hard to find a good balance.
where to start
effects of too much air: you should begin with checking your fuel system (injectors, pump, pressure, filter, MAP Sensor ,etc) if you think your engine is starved of fuel, remember you added a 4.0L t/b to gain airflow, then you say you have too much air - here's a fix, put back your original 2.5L t/b. Might want to actually start with an AFR gauge on and see what your results are, if you're too lean you need more fuel (and you'll get more power if you fix it, not the other way around as in reduce the air to lower the AFR and get richer mixture).
air volume and pressure sould be somewhat macthed to your spark and fuel
there's no pressure, you don't have a turbo. your PCM will control the spark (not sure how you match your spark by reducing air)
Also maybe better fuel consumption.
you are correct here, if you make less power you will improve your mpg (you drive slower)
such as some horse power gains along with torque...I know there is a fine line between more power and burning more fuel with it. Hard to find a good balance.
actually is not that hard, your O2 sensor takes care of that in closed loop (unless is damaged) - in open loop you'll need an AFR gauge, if you're too lean you need to fix your fuel problem (i probably said that too many times).
the HP produced by your engine is based on the amount of air your engine can circulate in a cycle - the more air the more fuel you can burn and that means more power - the BSFC for your engine and the amount of fuel you burn = HP output. Higher displacement engines will have a higher airflow and that's how they make more HP. If there's no fuel then yes, there is a problem but the fix is not by choking the intake.
-
Thats what I said. No just kidding. Yes I got that backwards, I know you burn fuel ofcousre. Now as far as the volume of air coming in from air filter is one thing. Colder better. Availible air better. Can you help me understand why is it when the air pressure coming in before air filter is increased, why do gain horse power and torque ? I know its not turbo. Not being smart or nothing. Its when I allow to much air in it looses pressure and torque. WHY ? Or maybe I just dont get it. But I know what I feel. More power and torque when the air is being pressurized inside air filter box. Huh.
-
Thats what I said. No just kidding. Yes I got that backwards, I know you burn fuel ofcousre. Now as far as the volume of air coming in from air filter is one thing. Colder better. Availible air better. Can you help me understand why is it when the air pressure coming in before air filter is increased, why do gain horse power and torque ? I know its not turbo. Not being smart or nothing. Its when I allow to much air in it looses pressure and torque. WHY ? Or maybe I just dont get it. But I know what I feel. More power and torque when the air is being pressurized inside air filter box. Huh.
first of all how do you know is being pressurized, you have not measured the pressure in your airbox, if you do I can bet as much as you want it will not be higher than atmospheric pressure - in order to have positive pressure (which means something higher than atmospheric pressure) you'll need either a turbo, supercharger or if you go by ram air you'd need the airflow (in cfm for example) that is pushed thru your ram intake to be higher than what your engine is cycling - so at a certain speed you need a large enough funnel section facing your direction of travel to create positive displacement, so airspeed x cross sectional area of your intake funnel = cfm with the conversion constants applied and that has to be greater than the cfm into your intake at the time.
the only way I can explain your results if they are real and not placebo is:
1. you have a fuel delivery problem (fuel filter, fuel pressure, plugged injectors, bad MAP or somehow altered MAP readings)
2. when you close "adjust" your aribox you actually get more cold air from under the wheel so that actually mean the air is more dense and therefore more air mass so in fact you add air and not reduce air
3. you did the testing at different outside temperatures
if your cutout above the shock mount is less than 2.5'' i vote for #1, otherwise #2 makes more sense.
#3 - that's for you to answer.
One thing is for sure, without any measurements (at least monitor the MAP output) would be hard to evaluate. If your MAP reading is the same at WOT in both instances, with the little door "adjusted" or open, then your cfm capacity is the same, the difference would be in air temperature which equates in more air mass, if the MAP reading is less with the little door slightly closed then it means indeed you get less air and in that case you might have a lean mixture so you should look at your fuel delivery.
-
Well I guess I am getting a funnel affect type ram air. The faster I go the better it works. Remember I have removed my headlight bezels for ambient air as its flow into the air box. So maybe when I am doing 60mph, the air is pressured into the air box. Of course the engine will only ingest what air can pass through the air filter. I know that when I am doing 65mph I can slightly step on the pedal and she will climb to 75 to 80 mph with ease. As far as the hole on the bottom of the box that is for instant air source. And the bottom hole also has a small short funnel. Anyway I do not have any documented measurments but it works for me. I wish you can come take it for a ride. Its like my front flat bumper. I am sure air at 60mph is pushing up against it as a negative affect. Drag. Well just the opposite for my air raming into air box. Eiether way its working. Thanks for your input and any knowledge you have in how all this stuff works, or not. A wise man listens to correction. Thanks for correcting me in anything I have not understood.
-
I know that when I am doing 65mph I can slightly step on the pedal and she will climb to 75 to 80 mph with ease.
so in your tests you don't open the throttle completely? I thought you're talking max power and torque, you don't get that at 1/2 the pedal.
-
Still testing and trying to find my sweet spot. Right now full throttle has only been applied right off the line. Wow she takes off fast. I will test at full throttle on highway when I get a chance. Dont want any tickets. I can do 70 to 75 at about 1/4 throttle. Gotta find a clear strecth off highway.
-
I misstyped in my previous post, I don't mean pressurized, I mean it's more important to have a lot air speed funnelling into the throttle body as you can. This is waaay more important than just having an ass load of air. If you have the airspeed going into the throttle body you'll smooth out the turbulence I was talking about earlier. And that directional fluidity of air flow into the throttle body is how you get the most power. And that's a one of the biggest advantages over the compartmentalized stock system. Air's a fluid and you have to think about how it's going to flow through the engine. Just my two experience pennies. I'm not an engineer just a over-enthusiastic 19 year old with a jeep so please do everyone (including myself) a favor and feel free to prove me wrong lol :doggy: :doggy: :doggy:
P.S. Do you guys want me to post pics of my system or no?
-
I misstyped in my previous post, I don't mean pressurized, I mean it's more important to have a lot air speed funnelling into the throttle body as you can. This is waaay more important than just having an ass load of air. If you have the airspeed going into the throttle body you'll smooth out the turbulence I was talking about earlier. And that directional fluidity of air flow into the throttle body is how you get the most power. And that's a one of the biggest advantages over the compartmentalized stock system. Air's a fluid and you have to think about how it's going to flow through the engine. Just my two experience pennies. I'm not an engineer just a over-enthusiastic 19 year old with a jeep so please do everyone (including myself) a favor and feel free to prove me wrong lol :doggy: :doggy: :doggy:
P.S. Do you guys want me to post pics of my system or no?
prove you wrong about what? didn't understand that one, you haven't been very specific. In any case, it's not a contest or anything, I just comment on what i read and give my 2 cents, it's up to you to take what you think is positive out of it and use it or discard it, I can't force you to believe or prove you wrong with no body of test other than giving examples and trying to explain how things work, you can make your own decision to believe or not what other say.
yes, post some pics of your setup.
-
Yeah I have given my 2 cents many times, hey thats added up to dollars. Show me the money. Hey everybody enjoy the forum, RIGHT. We are so bless we have food, clothing, beds and O yeah JEEPS!! AMEN.
-
prove you wrong about what? didn't understand that one, you haven't been very specific. In any case, it's not a contest or anything, I just comment on what i read and give my 2 cents, it's up to you to take what you think is positive out of it and use it or discard it, I can't force you to believe or prove you wrong with no body of test other than giving examples and trying to explain how things work, you can make your own decision to believe or not what other say.
yes, post some pics of your setup.
lol dude I know it's not a contest, I'm just want to know if what I know is right, that's why I come to this site. I wasn't being sarcastic I don't want to jack up my rig or do something and waste my time because my info is wrong. And sure I'll get some up as soon as I can.
-
lol dude I know it's not a contest, I'm just want to know if what I know is right, that's why I come to this site. I wasn't being sarcastic I don't want to jack up my rig or do something and waste my time because my info is wrong. And sure I'll get some up as soon as I can.
alright, no worries
one thing to know is that you're not pushing air into your engine but it's actually sucking in air. the cfm thru the intake at a specific engine speed is a result of your engine displacement, rpm and VE at that specific rpm (volumetric efficiency) - but the smaller the intake diameter the higher the airspeed. Think about why everyone wants larger throttle bodies and larger intake pipes - it is for less pressure drop and better VE (so that means more air into the cylinders). Same reason for which you port intakes and intake ports (and also polish them) and you want larger intake valves (and exhaust valves as well). So a bit backwards on airspeed, less is better but what you want is to increase cfm (air volume in cubic feet per minute). For example at the same cfm the speed of the air flowing thru a 1'' pipe would be 4 times higher than thru a pipe 2'' in diameter and more than 6 times faster compared to a 2.5'' pipe. Hope this helps.
EDIT: for an analogy on the airspeed vs intake diameter, you know when you squeeze a garden hose, the water comes out at higher speed and shoots further away but the actual volume coming out in a given amount of time is less than if you let it free flowing (and the speed of the water is way less in this case)
-
alright, no worries
one thing to know is that you're not pushing air into your engine but it's actually sucking in air. the cfm thru the intake at a specific engine speed is a result of your engine displacement, rpm and VE at that specific rpm (volumetric efficiency) - but the smaller the intake diameter the higher the airspeed. Think about why everyone wants larger throttle bodies and larger intake pipes - it is for less pressure drop and better VE (so that means more air into the cylinders). Same reason for which you port intakes and intake ports (and also polish them) and you want larger intake valves (and exhaust valves as well). So a bit backwards on airspeed, less is better but what you want is to increase cfm (air volume in cubic feet per minute). For example at the same cfm the speed of the air flowing thru a 1'' pipe would be 4 times higher than thru a pipe 2'' in diameter and more than 6 times faster compared to a 2.5'' pipe. Hope this helps.
EDIT: for an analogy, you know when you squeeze a garden hose, the water comes out at higher speed and shoots further away, at that time you actually create pressure in the hose (which you can compare with the pressure drop in your intake since it's sucking air in) but the actual volume coming out in a given amount of time is less than if you let it free flowing (but the speed of the water coming out is way less) -what you want in an engine is to get more air, hope this makes more sense, i didn't know if i made it clear enough before.
Thanks man, oh ok, cool I didn't about it as a suction for some reason. When I built my system I thought of it like flowing water through the engine. Sounds dumb, but it sorta worked for me. Ok, I'll post a pic sometime in the next couple days. By the way TS have you found your optimum combo for your openings in your airbox yet?
-
I believe I found another sweet spot. My mileage is up again. Torque and power good off line and top speed, with little pedal. Saving gas again. The nice thing is when I cruise down the freeway at 65 MPH I am barely on the pedal, then If I step on it a lil I feel torque and she climbs to 70, 75 mph just to pass someone easy. Anyway had to find that right balance all over again after swapping to a bigger throttle body. Its actually controlled speed, it does exactly what I want it to do according to the pedal of course. It does not get away from me when crawling, crawls when idleling and takes off when I want it to. I actually have to let off pedal on highway just to maintain speed limit. FUN, FUN