Author Topic: Snorkel on a 2.5L  (Read 13552 times)

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Offline Jeffy

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Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2006, 11:50:54 AM »
Quote from: "chrisfranklin"
(I caught the Chinese "Kamikaze" note a few back.  Hence, my wink  in the follow-on)

Of course, everybody knows that, towards the end of WW2, and running out of pilots, the Japanese were forced to utilize quickly-indoctrinated personnel from occupied mainland China to fly suicide missions against the approaching Allied Fleet.  These brain-washed, Chinese "Kamikaze" were called "Bejing-Bullets" by Allied Sailors and Marines.

I'm surprised you didn't know this, Jeffy




 :lol:



Just making sure... :wink:
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Islander

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Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2006, 07:54:52 AM »
Anyway, back to the snokel thread -

IMO - a snorkel is good for one thing - long distance convoy type trail running.  It'll get the inlet up and out of the dust and dirt kicked up from the guy in front of you. Day to day, it's worthless.  Water fording - yeah, good theory, maybe that'll impress the non-ers but unless it's 100% waterproof all the way to the TB it won't work (and like someobody said before me - if you've got standing water up to your windshield, you've got several other problems you need to be more concerned with).  If you plan on running a fair distance down a dusty trail or sand - it'll help you out some, unless you're running point the entire way - then it's just one more thing that could get busted off by those rouge ice over lakes in China.

Offline Jeffy

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Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2006, 12:30:39 PM »
Well, they are used for water crossings but not ones where you're going to be driving through for a while.  On a Stock Jeep water only needs to be 24" to get to the stock intake, I believe.  Although if you're moving the bow wave will help keep the water out.  Stop and it will be right into the air box.  At 24" most of the electrical's are still high enough to be out of water.  Although if you have an older Jeep, some of the connectros might not be as waterproof as you might think.  In any case, a snorkle by itself is mostly for looks but is still ok for the wheeler who isn't going to be driving down a river.  If that's your thing though, a snorkel is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.  A lot of other issues need to be covered.
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Offline Mozman68

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would a snorkel help??
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2006, 07:40:50 AM »
Just went on my first trail ride Saturday...wooooooo.

Here I am going through the first "puddle"



This guy went through right after me...water gets in the cylinder...KA-BOOM....rips right through the oil pan...no more engine.


So...would a snorkel have helped??  Sylicone the distributor cap??  Run the exhaust up to the top of the Jeep?

I had fun in the mud and want to do it again...but not if my engine is going to explode.

Oh yeah...I got stuck as well...went through this one a couple of times and the ruts finally got a little to deep and the front end plowed into a wall 'o' mud.



...and this was my favorite "stuck" of the day...nearly tipped on its side as they were trying to pull it out.  Two guys ran over and literally jumped on the side of the Jeep to keep it upright....looked like they were sailing a Hobie Cat.

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jackhammer

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Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2006, 11:44:39 AM »
sweet I cant wait to get out there but I will deff. be weary of h2o and deep mudd

Offline Jeffy

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Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2006, 12:45:03 PM »
The best thing to do is be aware of your intake height and know how to drive through water.  Blasting through water looks cool but it's very smart.  Deep water can be a PITA.

As long as you keep the engine running, having the exhaust underwater isn't a problem.  The pressure from the engine should keep most of the water out.  

Siliconing the distributor isn't really necessary unless you're planning on going into some deep stuff and if it's that deep, you'd have been better off prepping your Jeep more.

The thing here is prioirties.  Unless you're on a expedition where you need to be floating your Jeep across a river or driving it through a swamp, you don't have to go overhoard on water protection.  The intake is on the front of the Jeep and isn't that high.  24" is the height of the intake on most stock Jeeps.  24" does not mean it has to be 24" deep.  When driving in water, like in a boar, you create a bow wave that sits in front of the vehicle as long as you keep moving forward.  Right behind the bow wave is the trough.  This is a low spot which will usually be behind your grill.  This is good since the air box is in that general area.  If you stop though, the wave will colapse and the trough will fill and crest a bit.

So, the first step would be to add a snorkel.  Is that all that's needed?  No.  The next problem area is probably the fan.  Normally it moves air.  When it moves air it blows it towards the engine.  In water, because of the resistance, the fan will flex (even the stock fan)  With enough resistance it could bend the fan enough to encounter the radiator.  (Unlikely on a 2.5L.)  It will put added stress on the engine.

Is that it?  Nope, not even close.  All of your axles, transfer case and transmission have breather tubes.  Most of these are short.  The transmission vent is usually only a few inches taller then the top of the case.  Those lines can easily be lengthened.

Now lets look at the electrical.  Any place you have a connection, you have a place where water can get into and can cause grounding.  Die electric grease in the spark plug boots would help in the boots to keep water out.  The distributor had a vent but it isn't very long.  Sealing around the base of the distributor with silicone would help keep water out.  Then you'd have to extend the vent to a better place.  Also, spraying WD40 on the rotor and inside of the distributor would be a good idea.  (WD 40's purpose was for Water Displacement.)  On older engine's is almost impossible to seal off everything.  Mainly relays and the computer.  They should all be sealed, too.

By this time your exhaust to be raised higher.  The military does this with a bolt on flange at the end of the regular pipe, making it removeable.

I've seen some really hard core stuff where a air pump was connected to all of the vents.  This adds a bit of positive air pressure into all of these components which prevents water from entering nearly as fast.

Speaking of pumps, by now you should have water leaking though the floor.  The floor has a bunch of holes you may never see.  Every place a bolt passes through is a potential leak.  Why should this matter?  Well, if you're going to raise the intake to the top of the Jeep, that means at maximum depth, you'll be under water.  Even when it's only half way up, you'll be up to your neck.

So what is a snorkel good for then?  Those times you plow your Jeep though those muddy water holes.  Where there is a pretty good chance of dipping the from low enough for the intake to drink water but not deep enough for you to be swimming in it.  Those dunks can still do a lot of damage.

There is another use.  The Auzzies use them to keep the intake out of the dust.  When driving in dry area's dusst is more of a problem then water.  If the dust is fine it will clog up an air filter in no time.

In the US most people buy them for looks though.  Although for the occasional dunk, it could save you a lot of money.

On a personal note, I don't like the looks of the ARB snorkel.  Vortex now has an even uglier snorkel out now too.  For some reason I like what the Brits have been doing.  Plastic drainage pipe with a cap on top.  Many of them look good enough to be OEM.  Only problem with a Jeep is that they can look rather ugly since the pipe's have to be routed outside the body.

Oh and that guy is lucky if all he he damaged was his oil pan and lowers.  Hydrolocking usually bends all of the pistons.  IF you're really lucky, it will break then off and the rod will ventilate the block.
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Offline Mozman68

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ARB
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2006, 01:45:08 PM »
Quote from: "Jeffy"
On a personal note, I don't like the looks of the ARB snorkel.  Vortex now has an even uglier snorkel out now too.  For some reason I like what the Brits have been doing.  Plastic drainage pipe with a cap on top.  Many of them look good enough to be OEM.  Only problem with a Jeep is that they can look rather ugly since the pipe's have to be routed outside the body.


...but there just doesn't seem to be anything else out there other than home made PVC pipe solutions.  

Any links to the British ones you like??

I like the look of a snorkel but tend to agree with you a little on the ARB one....seems to go way lower on the side panel than it has to....I understand they are coming up to the intake from the bottom...just don't like the way it covers the whole side of the Jeep.
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Offline Jeffy

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Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2006, 04:58:05 PM »
Whoops, I meant Volant not Vortex.



Many of the DIY's I like are not on Jeeps but rather Land Rovers , FJ40's and other vehicles.  They seem to make them so they doesn't look like drainage pipe on the side of the vehicle.  None of that ragged scrap metal with silicone around everything then pray painted nonsense.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/thebecketts/rover/rovermod.htm

A little too organic for me: http://www.pbase.com/flagg/snorkel

There are by a company called Mantec.


Bottom of the cap:
Safari/ARB:

Internal setup with intake still mounted under the hood/fender.




Out of these, I like the last Toyota.  Although I'd choose a different cap.
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Offline stan98tj

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Re: Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2010, 09:27:12 PM »
Old thread but i was thinking of swapping out my AEM cold air to a snorkel for some peace of mind for water crossing. i dont go in anything too deep but id think it would be a nice idea to have the intake raised a bit.
 My concerns were as follows:
performance would be hindered. Not that the AEM makes much of a difference, but it helps a little bit. It seems that the very shape of the intake would make airflow harder to the engine...perhaps restrict it in a bit. Im not sure at this point i want to put anything on that will restrict the engine.

What happens when it rains or snows real hard? Driving in a strong rain storm, it would seem that the water could possibly get in...would it be enoigh to be concerned? What about a good snow storm? driving snow could pack up inside the scoop...im assuming you would have to knock the snow off before starting the engine...

Im aware of the fact that many more things need to be water proofed before going into anything really deep, but im wondering if this is worth the added insurance for the occasional splash in the deeper mud/water holes.
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Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2010, 09:45:11 PM »
i can't recall your AEM setup but if you have it inside the engine bay the snorkel will give you better performance since the air is cooler significantly - just use a high flow filter and you'll see an improvement. I don't know about snow, water from rain is fine unless it's a tropical type storm there's not much to worry about - if you're really concerned in a heavy rain you can always point the scoop backwards
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Offline Jeffy

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Re: Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2010, 10:23:00 PM »
What happens when it rains or snows real hard? Driving in a strong rain storm, it would seem that the water could possibly get in...would it be enoigh to be concerned? What about a good snow storm? driving snow could pack up inside the scoop...im assuming you would have to knock the snow off before starting the engine...
You either use a pre-filter like a tornado or you turn the inlet around so it's pointed backwards.  Generally you'll still have an airbox so it would have to fill up first.


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Offline stan98tj

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Re: Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2010, 11:41:10 PM »
this would therefor require me to go back to a stock airbox i'm assuming...good thing i saved mine. sharpxmen mentioned a high flow filter to use as well, any examples (is that just a K&N?) High flow filter and snorkel together? And yes, my AEM is a cold air intake-basically replaced the stock box with tube and large filter. 
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Offline Jeffy

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Re: Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2010, 12:09:25 AM »
You could run an inline filter of some sort but then you're getting a smaller filter which would therefore restrict some.  Might as well go back to the stock airbox and have an extra level of protection.  You could run a K&N or Fram Air Hog in there though.  My Airhog seems to filter more then my old K&N.  No dust on the outlet side.

With regard to all the electricals, it's usually not too big of a deal.  They don't short out that easily.  A snorkel will do a few things though.  Give you cold air while also giving you fresh air, especially if you drive in a dusty area.  The initial dunk won't cause the engine to suck up water either.
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Torch_Ind

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Re: Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2010, 08:49:38 AM »
Quote
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did you window motor it like me and snap the cam?

Offline stan98tj

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Re: Snorkel on a 2.5L
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2010, 03:22:55 PM »
You could run an inline filter of some sort but then you're getting a smaller filter which would therefore restrict some.  Might as well go back to the stock airbox and have an extra level of protection.  You could run a K&N or Fram Air Hog in there though.  My Airhog seems to filter more then my old K&N.  No dust on the outlet side.

With regard to all the electricals, it's usually not too big of a deal.  They don't short out that easily.  A snorkel will do a few things though.  Give you cold air while also giving you fresh air, especially if you drive in a dusty area.  The initial dunk won't cause the engine to suck up water either.
what are the hi-flow filter options that i have? By the way, i blew the TPS the other day while washing down my engine bay. and i was careful no to spray water directly on the sensors...still, the water that got on it (mixed with the engine cleaner) managed to kill the TPS. unless of course this was all a coincidence and it just happened to die after i was done cleaning. Just saying, if a little water from a hose can take out a sensor, a full dunk can prob do some work lol.
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