Topic: The dilemma: Rockcrawler v Expedition

[FourbangerYJ]

BTW: Already have a winch and OBA.  Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder.  Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.

I REALLY love my RW. For years it was my only welder. They are awesome and priced pretty good for what you get.

What is your definition of a rockcrawler? Stingers, comp cut, D60's 37+ tires?

[Jeffy]

So in just a sort of analytical mode....

If you look at the weight difference of 35's and the right wheels
vs the 33's and the correct wheels your talking almost 100 lbs on the rig
in some tire sizes.... For like 1" working clearance?

Then add the increased wind resistance of the lugs on the bigger tire,
plus the inherent inertia of a bigger diameter tire it matters, even if you re-gear.

Anecdotely;
I went from 12mpg  to 19mpg by switching from the 285x70/16 to 238x85/16.
The YJ drives 100% better on the road and I can't tell so far off road that
I lost anything, feels like it climbs better and I'm scared to test the real
mud traction of the tire.(Toyo Open Country MT's) At the doors in goo
i didn't even have it in 4x4 yet.

Dave

From what I understand, it's a 10:1 radio so that's around 400lbs of sprung weight which is pretty huge but like I said 31's are going to be too small.  For the even the main trail on the Rubicon, you'll be dragging your junk across it.  33's and up have a much easier time.  So, it's 255/85R16's or 33x10.5R15's.  I do have my OE 15x6's but they may not want to mount 10.5's on them since BFG recommends 7's.  Also the BS is a little deep at 5.5".  It will probably be a waiting game between needing new tires and gathering enough money to put a D44 under the front and reaxle and gear the rear.  I'd hate to have to buy wheels twice.

On a side note, I noticed the MT/R has been discontinued which is really sad.  I hate the look of the Kevlar.

I REALLY love my RW. For years it was my only welder. They are awesome and priced pretty good for what you get.

What is your definition of a rockcrawler? Stingers, comp cut, D60's 37+ tires?

Nothing so definable.  Generally speaking 33x12.5R15's and up, Wide track with a decent amount of suspension travel.  Today the 33 and 35's are almost passe.

[dwtaylorpdx]

Yea, if your rims get too narrow it will mess up the tire life big time. I made that mistake on my last rig.
I try and stay the same width as the tread now, so I get just a little protection for the rim but don't suck
the tread into a curve....

The question I just thought of,,, and I don't have an answer yet, is it better to go from 33 to 35 inch
tires or add 1.5 inch of shackle? Both will add about 1 inch under the skid plate... I personally am running
1.5's, little bump in height without getting sloppy. I originally did the 1.5's to make up for spring sag,
but then replaced the springs... and never replaced the shackles like I planned... :)

Dave

[Jeffy]

Yea, if your rims get too narrow it will mess up the tire life big time. I made that mistake on my last rig.
I try and stay the same width as the tread now, so I get just a little protection for the rim but don't suck
the tread into a curve....

The question I just thought of,,, and I don't have an answer yet, is it better to go from 33 to 35 inch
tires or add 1.5 inch of shackle? Both will add about 1 inch under the skid plate... I personally am running
1.5's, little bump in height without getting sloppy. I originally did the 1.5's to make up for spring sag,
but then replaced the springs... and never replaced the shackles like I planned... :)

Dave

Well, typically when you run 12.5's on a 8" wheel, you will eventually wear the inside tread faster then the outside.  it always happens, even if you think you'll run the lower pressure.  Later you think, oh I'll bump up the pressure for a little while to get better mileage and then it sits like that for years.    Mine is about a 1/8" difference.  For a 10.5" I'd probably want to run a 8" wheel which would be about the same as running a 10" on a 12.5" tire.  10.5's fit on 6" wheels but they are pinched a bit.  It's actually fairly common to see someone fitting 31x10.5R15's on a stock 15x6 though.  I think the Taco wheels on the FJ80 are 16x7's.  I'd like to run 15x8's but with a lot less BS.  Maybe 4.75 which is what AEV runs on their wheels.  My spare AR767 is 15x8 with 4"BS I think.  I don't really want to run 767's all around though.

As for your question.  I'd say 35's will make a bigger difference.  I wouldn't go with 1.5" shackles since that's a lot of shackle.  IIRC that's 3" over stock.  I ran 1.25" and it screwed up my pinion angles a bit in the front.  I didn't notice any drift issues with the reduced caster though.  Fixed all of that when I went SOA up front.  I went back to stock shackles.  Now the rears I think are .5" lift with the dog legs.

[dwtaylorpdx]

Whoops, I just rechecked mine they are 3/4" lift... Got to thinking.... :) Dangerous...

Dave

[Jeffy]

Did a bit more searching around.  Found a set of Rubicon D44's as well as the NVG241OR for $2600. Not a bad deal.  To use the NVG241OR, you would have to swap out the AX-5 for a AX-15 or NV3550 but otherwise, you'd basically be turning your Jeep into a Rubicon.  They didn't have the pumps for the lockers though.  Also, if you kept the lockers you would be limited to 5.13:1 which isn't too bad.  If I was going to go that route, I'd keep my D44 (stronger housing) and gut the front D44 then install standard gears and ARB's.  I'd be left with the one piece hubs but it could be worse.  Too bad, I don't have the money, since I just bougth something else not Jeep related.

Oh and for those who also want dished steel wheel, I found something that might work with the 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern.  Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis wheels.  The steel wheel used for the spares as well as Police cars are either 15x7 or 16x7 depending on the year.  I wouldn't use the really late wheels as they have huge amounts of positive offset.  You could also check out Mopar 70's police wheels as they are 5 on 4.5" as well.  You'll have to confirm the BS though.  They look between 3-4".  Seem to be going for $50 or less.  The CV wheels are probably cheaper at a pick-n-pull.

[FourbangerYJ]

If your plans are to stay SOA in the front your gonna need flat top knuckles to clear the springs. I'd look for a Waggy and swap it over to 5 on 5.5. The Ford D44's have a 6 hole spindle. The only people I found that make 6 hole flat tops is Dedenbear (IIRC they are $600 for the pair). The Waggy uses GM style 5 hole spindle and flat tops can be found for much more reasonable prices.

[Jeffy]

If your plans are to stay SOA in the front your gonna need flat top knuckles to clear the springs. I'd look for a Waggy and swap it over to 5 on 5.5. The Ford D44's have a 6 hole spindle. The only people I found that make 6 hole flat tops is Dedenbear (IIRC they are $600 for the pair). The Waggy uses GM style 5 hole spindle and flat tops can be found for much more reasonable prices.

I would definitely go for high-steer as that will eliminate any bumpsteer that I already have.  Good to know about the Ford D44.  Not to mention the SJ D44 will probably be under $300 as whole vehicles are going for around $1000 (non-op).

[Tsd]

Jeffy, if you go for explorer, do you plan to put a rooftop tent on the Jeep? If so, what would be your choice?

[FourbangerYJ]

I would definitely go for high-steer as that will eliminate any bumpsteer that I already have.  Good to know about the Ford D44.  Not to mention the SJ D44 will probably be under $300 as whole vehicles are going for around $1000 (non-op).

Now that I think about it a Ford D44 would work, but you need GM stuff from the knuckle out. But unless you find one from a EB you would need to shorten it to Waggy inner length. It would be nice to have a HP but it's alot more work to get it to fit width wise.

[Jeffy]

Jeffy, if you go for explorer, do you plan to put a rooftop tent on the Jeep? If so, what would be your choice?

Well, here's what I'm thinking.  I doubt I'll be camping anywhere where I'll have to worry about floods or animals.  A roof top tent is big.  I think the Hannibal is the big one you see on many TLC's and Rovers.  They have the awning and changing area.  IIRC, they are around 140lbs which is a fair amount.  The problem with mounting one on a Wrangler is the fiberglass top.  It's not designed for a lot of weight.  I think it's safe for around 300 distributed but I wouldn't go much more without doing a body mounted rack like a Gavin or similar.  The other problem with a Jeep is that they are small, so that tent better be small.  The Hannibal is huge and that's all you're going to be putting up there.  There used to be a company called Oasis which made a smaller tent but I think they went out of business.  I think teh best option would be to just sleep in a normal tent.  They are smaller and weight a lot less.  You can set up a changing room separately, if you need to.  Or better yet, add an awning and tent under it.  If the awning is large enough it turns into a lean to.

This is why Art is recommending a trailer.  If you build a small trailer you can put a tent on that.

This is an awesome setup: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=34296

I think something smaller like this makes a bit more sense: http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/adventure_equip/adventure_trailers/chaser.html or  http://www.outlandertrailers.com/

A more minimalist approach: http://www.tentrax.com/

[Jeffy]

Now that I think about it a Ford D44 would work, but you need GM stuff from the knuckle out. But unless you find one from a EB you would need to shorten it to Waggy inner length. It would be nice to have a HP but it's alot more work to get it to fit width wise.

I wouldn't be too worried about HP since having two standards would allow for having one set of spare gears to cover both axles.  Not something really crucial but does simplify things.

[chrisfranklin]

The idea of the roof-top tent is appealing, the pictures of it are appealing, the adventure concept is appealing.  The reality: most Jeep owners in North America will probably need a roof-top tent about as much as they "need" 40 inch MTs        Come on I need another -1    

[Tsd]

This is an awesome setup: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=34296

That thing is AMAZING! I guess the trailer cost's about the same as the jeep 

Ever since I wanted a jeep, I wanted a roof rack and an Oasis II Tent. I was ready to bite the bullet, since they are not cheap, and they went out of business. Then I found out that oasis tents were a re badge of a french tent. Sadly, I had spent the money on something else. You can still get one here: 

http://oasis.trekking.fr/oasis-62.php

I don't speak french, don't know which one is the "Add to cart" button is.

I still think that the oasis tent is the best solution, all the others are too heavy and when closed they are too tall (like the ARB tents or the hannibal). If you have a lift+roof rack+tent, your jeep wouldn't fit anywhere. I like the way the Oasis sits inside the roof rack when closed, and you can't beat the 40 lbs.


 

[FourbangerYJ]

I have wanted to build a trailer for a long time. I have drawn out plans using this http://www.milspecoffroad.com/ as a guide as well as other trailers. But I put it on hold since I don't think I would use it but once or twice.