Author Topic: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?  (Read 4914 times)

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Offline Jeffy

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2010, 12:37:13 AM »
Have any of you with SOA's ran into problems with the stock nerf bars on the sides?  My guy who is doing my lift and doing a reverse shackle says that the side nerf bars might get into the way. 

here is a link to what I am talking about in case I am using wrong term.. The bars under the door. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2175/2484131815_bca1f168b1.jpg
Well, I don't run a shackle reversal since thet don't really do anything for you offroad.  Not to mention you will have more bumpsteer with a SOA unless you go hi-steer.  I think what your friend is saying is that yot nerf might be mounted too far forward and not allow the mounting of the new hanger.  Although. The shackle should be mounted around the stock frame mount.  I think even if it's right behind the hanger you'll be ok.  If not then just remove the nerf bars.
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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2010, 01:31:55 AM »
I'd never do a reversal. Nose dives pretty bad on the road, causes problems climbing hills, and like Jeffy said it magnifies steering issues. The pro's are not worth the cons.

Offline jagular7

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2010, 07:40:42 AM »
Sell your leafer and get a coiler......cheaper to mod as well.....stock springs, 2" poly spacer, 1.5" body lift, no SYE and running 35s.



Biggest thing to consider, wheel/tires - size and wheel offset. Go from there. If you go too big in wheel/tire size, you'll need different axles to handle the weight and wheeling the size of the tires. Keep wheel/tire size acceptable, then you may only need to swap out your axle. (I haven't read if you are planning to do something with the stock D35 rear axle.)  Get estimates for r&p and lunchbox lockers install, and possible unit bearings, ball joints and u-joints.
The SOA gives you better approach angles due to the location of the front shackle relative to the axle. Introduces lots of other problems using stock axles, ie steering, weld-on perches. Has higher il-effects than lift springs SUA in off-camber situations. Swap in 78/79 Ford F250 front axle for SOA and it gives you better options, ie bigger brakes, SOA already (5/8" off center of YJ springs (absorbed in bushings or add in offset shackles)), high steer capability, bigger r&p, still high pinion, same 297 u-joint but bigger shafts, shock mount relocation, much much heavier axle. Swap rear axle from same truck to the rear (usually D60), requires welding spring perches and shock mounts and redoing rear ds. Regear to match your tire size. Wheels will need to be 8on6.5. Gear them to work with your tires. SUA introduces greater potential for axle wrap. SOA usually requires a SYE for the stock tcase.
SUA is a more appropriate for the milder wheeler. Less problematic in comparison to SUA. Same situation with your axles. Need to figure out what will work with your choice of tires/wheels. The stock D35 rear axle can be mod'd to handle 35's moderately. Swapping in another axle (8.8, 8.25) is viable option. The front D30 axle should be able to handle 35's easily. There are upgrade areas for it as well. SUA is more of a bolt in situation. Add a slight body lift and motor mount lift to drop the rear output of your tcase. It is similar to adding drop brackets to your crossmember. Lift the front or drop the rear of the driveline. Or add SYE ($200 or so for tcase and $200-300 for rear ds) and need not worry too much.
 
Comparing the upgrade costs to axle swap cost is difficult. Many do their own work and there are slight differences in hardware you choose to use with them. Labor costs are variable in different locations across the US.  Making your stock axles stronger can be costly in parts, but they will last. Swap in heavier axles (right choice of axles), then rebuild and install will also last.

For your $2k budget, I'd go 33's, 4.56 in axles, lunchbox lockers, swap in either 8.8 (Explorer 95-01) or late model XJ (8.25, upgrade to 29spline shafts) or strengthen D35 (Super35), SUA with 3.5-4" lift springs (look for Baja bushings), longer shackles, rebuild axles to handle (bearings, ball joints, ujoints, etc), SYE, front/rear bumpers with recovery points, winch (8000#). Then in time, add 1.25" body lift, TJ flares, flat belly and go to 35's. Once you get more and more experience, better job, more income, etc., then look into going bigger tires, swapping in Hemi driveline, bigger axles, toter, trailer, etc...

Jagular7
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Offline oldjeep

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2010, 07:49:53 AM »

For your $2k budget, I'd go 33's, 4.56 in axles, lunchbox lockers, swap in either 8.8 (Explorer 95-01) or late model XJ (8.25, upgrade to 29spline shafts) or strengthen D35 (Super35), SUA with 3.5-4" lift springs (look for Baja bushings), longer shackles, rebuild axles to handle (bearings, ball joints, ujoints, etc), SYE, front/rear bumpers with recovery points, winch (8000#). Then in time, add 1.25" body lift, TJ flares, flat belly and go to 35's. Once you get more and more experience, better job, more income, etc., then look into going bigger tires, swapping in Hemi driveline, bigger axles, toter, trailer, etc...

Little over 2K there, don't you think?
Chuck P
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WranglerCOdy

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2010, 08:23:17 AM »
I'd never do a reversal. Nose dives pretty bad on the road, causes problems climbing hills, and like Jeffy said it magnifies steering issues. The pro's are not worth the cons.


mmm? are you sure because it makes a softer ride quality and is a must for rock crawling.

i plan on doing it.

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2010, 08:30:43 AM »

mmm? are you sure because it makes a softer ride quality and is a must for rock crawling.

i plan on doing it.

why a must for rock crawling? (just wandering what the difference would be, not saying it's either way)
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Offline oldjeep

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2010, 08:37:06 AM »
I wouldn't call it a must, but it does help your approach angle and really helps when climbing near vertical objects (you don't get the axle pushback/shackle inversion that wants to happen with a front shackle).   A set of anti inversion shackles solves part of the problem.  

The nose diving is only really prevelant with the stupid shackle completely below the frame kits, or if you are running a shackle reversal SOA with really soft springs.  Take a look at a leaf spring pickup some time and notice where the shackles are ;)

Causes problems climbing hills?  Don't get that one at all.

That being said, I don't run a shackle reversal on my jeep because there is not enough gain for the amount of work it would take to do it right.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 08:38:04 AM by oldjeep »
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

www.oldjeep.com

Jesse-James

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2010, 10:46:27 AM »
When my buddy was running the reversal he had issues with the front unloading on hills, springs went to full flex all the time and made it break traction easier. It was the under frame mount type if it makes a difference.

Offline oldjeep

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2010, 10:59:53 AM »
It was the under frame mount type if it makes a difference.

Makes a huge difference.  The "kits" that mount the shackle completely under the frame rather than through cause all sorts of issues.
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

www.oldjeep.com

Offline Mozman68

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2010, 11:05:31 AM »
What's a shackle??   :whistle:


I love this thread...because it doesn't affect me one bit... :thumbsup:
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Offline oldjeep

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2010, 11:16:46 AM »
What's a shackle??   :whistle:


I love this thread...because it doesn't affect me one bit... :thumbsup:

Yup - I don't think he has once suggested that he was going to throw a pile of money at someone and have them build a rig for him  :dance:
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

www.oldjeep.com

Offline Jeffy

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2010, 11:25:36 AM »
why a must for rock crawling? (just wandering what the difference would be, not saying it's either way)
"This is where the debate arises. As your vehicle comes up to an obstacle, the front axle will want to move into the obstacle if the front shackle is at the front of the leaf pack. Proponents of the front shackle believe this is good because in theory it forces the tires to have more traction as the spring is being compressed and pushing the axle forward at the same time."
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Offline neale_rs

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2010, 11:31:39 AM »
The shackle reversal tends to require longer splines for the front DS since the axle will move down and forward when drooping, rather than down and back as with a front shackle setup.
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Sine Deviance

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2010, 01:29:40 PM »
If I had the money and really wanted the extra 2.5" of lift, I'd buy a Rubicon Express 4.5" kit.

With that said, I'm pretty happy with my 2" Black Diamond lift and I have no plans to change it or go any higher. When it comes time for stuff to start getting replaced, we'll see.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 01:31:01 PM by Sine Deviance »

WranglerCOdy

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Re: What type of lift would you put in your jeep?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2010, 02:57:26 PM »
why a must for rock crawling? (just wandering what the difference would be, not saying it's either way)

its the way the suspension performs. with the shackle up front when you are climbing up rocks the wheel fights its way up and with the reversal it forces the axle forward and the actually helps climbing.


there was an episode of Xtreme4x4 with it on there.


here is a read up of just the driving performances. but the same goes for offroad

http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/reviews/more97/more2.htm

Normally when driving forward and the tire encounters a bump, the bump wants to push the tire back and up, while in the normal configuration as the spring compresses it wants to move the tire forward because the shackle swings forward (well, to get technical the bump does not "want" or "push" anything, but you get the picture without complicated force explanations) - the result is that when you encounter a bump your Jeep gives you more of a jolt than it has to. This is most pronounced with highly arched lift springs, which is one of the big reasons why Jeeps with flatter stock springs (like the Wrangler YJ) have a fairly reasonable ride when compared with there predecessors (the CJs).

Now when you encounter a bump with a shackle reversal the bump wants to push up and back and the as the spring compresses it naturally moves backwards. All is right with the world. The effect is quite noticeable and it turns what used to be a jarring, tooth rattling ride into a much smoother more pleasant experience. In addition, an added benefit is that bumps now increase camber instead of decreasing camber and that helps result in slightly more stable steering and less wander over bumps.