Topic: Additional Lift on a Shackle Reversal Kit

[Bounty Hunter]

I know what you're proposing, and what I was talking about was the modification you already made over stock. 

Can we agree that the leading end of the spring is in relatively the same position as the stock shackle?

Can we agree that the trailing end of the spring is 6" lower than the stock position?


As your caster sits now, you're steering is overworked and your front end probably rises and falls as you cycle the steering side to side.

Don't get bent if somebody calls that kit crap, it's their opinion.  I for one can't believe they sell it. You wouldn't be posting on a public forum if you didn't want feedback, and you have to be able to take the good with the bad.

Can you do us a favor and post a pic of the installed product?  Leaf springs from a side angle?  Pinion angle?

[jonzjeepyj]

Can we agree that the leading end of the spring is in relatively the same position as the stock shackle?

No

The front spring eye is actually mounted closer to the frame since the shackle in not being used.  It's now mounted over not in addition to the existing spring bracket.  The front of the spring went up 1 1/2 inches and the rear of the spring went down 1 inches.  Subtract the two (1 1/2 inches from the 1 inches) and your left with 1/2 inch higher all together. 






These shackle arms are 5 inches center to center of bolts. Stock shackles are 4 inches center to center, a difference of 1/2 in height.  2 inch lift shackles for the front of a stock set up would be 8 inches center to center of bolts.  I wanted to go with a new shackle arm mounted to the back of the spring that was 7 1/2 inches center to center of bolts, not much different from a 2 inch stock lift shackle.   




***Here are my angles***












Most people have the long shackles up front hanging down low.  Mine are at the rear
of the front spring instead of the front.  Not much different in my book for a visual difference.

John

[Jeffy]

Well, here's what I think.  I would not run longer shackles.  I can see a lot of problems that the SR caused but since you don't go offroad or 4wd, you won't notice most of them.  The front drivesahft angle is pretty bad and is not running in the same plane as it should be.  The output of the transfer case and the pinion should be running parallel to each other so each U-joint turns at the same speed.  But again, your driveshaft doesn't turn while in 2wd.

Generally speaking any shackle over an inch lift is excessive.  You could correct for some of your pinion angle by shimming the diff but I don't think it will get level so the pinion and caster will be stock.  You'd really need to get an accurate measurement on the angle of the two U-joints.

The ride and handling are supposed to be better with a SR kit but I doubt that's the case.  The main reason being, the trackbar is still attached and that makes a HUGE difference in ride.

From the pictures, you're also missing a bumper bolt for the front hangers.

PS: relax.

[oldjeep]

Couple comments

1) In the picture where you show the front of the front spring bracket.  Isn't that slotted hole supposed to be bolted to the frame using the lower bumper bolt?  That looks extremely dangerous.
2) You can't tell what your driveline angles look like unless the picture shows the piniondriveshaft and tcase in one picture - unless you slap an angle finder on the yokes and take a picture of that.

3)  Having the shackles hang in the back is a lot different.  Currently your bottom shackle bolt is at about the midline of your axle.  To get the same effect on the front your shackles would be about a foot long.

[oldjeep]

One more thing that I notice from the pictures - the shackles are actually leaning forward?  Maybe that'll go away when the leafs settle out a bit, but it suprises me that you say that it rides well.  I would expect it to be rather jarring when you hit a bump and that shackle has to get pushed back to vertical and then beyond.

It also appears that the shackles are on backwards.  Not that you will likely get enough flex for it to matter, but the open end goes towards the spring - the side with the plate goes away from the spring.

Edit: Looked at their instructions and they actually picture installing them that way - weird

[Jeffy]

One more thing that I notice from the pictures - the shackles are actually leaning forward?  Maybe that'll go away when the leafs settle out a bit, but it suprises me that you say that it rides well.  I would expect it to be rather jarring when you hit a bump and that shackle has to get pushed back to vertical and then beyond.

It also appears that the shackles are on backwards.  Not that you will likely get enough flex for it to matter, but the open end goes towards the spring - the side with the plate goes away from the spring.

I'll expand on the shackles a bit more.  What he's saying is that when the suspension compresses the leaf has to fight to push the shackle to vertical.  This becomes a bigger issue when you start articulating the suspension to it's limits.  The shackle could force the leaf spring to fold in on itself instead of pushing the shackle this caused the shackle to fold inwards.  Optimally, you want your shackles to be angled away from the axle a few degrees so this doesn't happen.

My guess though is that because the leaf spring is raised at such and angle, it just looks like the shackle isn't right.

I suspect the driveshaft angles look something like this 

[jonzjeepyj]

It is still jarring after I installed the kit.  What did improve was the wondering.  From what your and others are telling me, I will gain a lot of ride quality if I remove the track bars front and back.  I haven't had the time to take them off yet to see the difference.   I was going to do this last weekend but ran out of time.  I will be taking them off though.  Thanks for the suggestion. 

Yes I took out the bumper bolt and I'm replacing them with regular hex head bolts to get rid of the special star
pattern bolt.  I may just run a weld down the front.

Remember,  The shackles I installed were the ones that came with the kit. 

[jonzjeepyj]

That looks about right.
Maybe I should just get 6 inch springs?

[Bounty Hunter]

Can we agree that the leading end of the spring is in relatively the same position as the stock shackle?

No

The front spring eye is actually mounted closer to the frame since the shackle in not being used.  It's now mounted over not in addition to the existing spring bracket.  The front of the spring went up 1 1/2 inches and the rear of the spring went down 1 inches.  Subtract the two (1 1/2 inches from the 1 inches) and your left with 1/2 inch higher all together. 

These shackle arms are 5 inches center to center of bolts. Stock shackles are 4 inches center to center, a difference of 1/2 in height.  2 inch lift shackles for the front of a stock set up would be 8 inches center to center of bolts.  I wanted to go with a new shackle arm mounted to the back of the spring that was 7 1/2 inches center to center of bolts, not much different from a 2 inch stock lift shackle.   


Most people have the long shackles up front hanging down low.  Mine are at the rear
of the front spring instead of the front.  Not much different in my book for a visual difference.

John

First off, the rear of the spring did not go down 1" from stock, it went down 5".  The upper mounting hole is the stock location, and that is your reference point.

Secondly, the fact that the front of the spring went up 1.5" makes things even worse.  

A spring that was relatively level in stock position is now 6.5" downward at the rear.  You add the 5"+1.5", that's how you do the math on figuring out the suspension.  Get the stock 4" shackle length out of your head as that has nothing to do with the calculations.

[oldjeep]

That looks about right.
Maybe I should just get 6 inch springs?

6" springs?

And I hesitate to ask this, but looking at the last picture you posted.  That front reciever hitch, is there any sort of reinforement behind it that ties it to the frame rails?  What do you use that for?

[oldjeep]

[Running a weld down the front?  That bracket needs to be attached to the frame not welded to the tin bumper.

[Bounty Hunter]

It is still jarring after I installed the kit.  What did improve was the wondering.  From what your and others are telling me, I will gain a lot of ride quality if I remove the track bars front and back.  I haven't had the time to take them off yet to see the difference.   I was going to do this last weekend but ran out of time.  I will be taking them off though.  Thanks for the suggestion. 

Removing the track bars will not improve ride quality, it will only improve axle articulation.  I would at least leave your front on.

Your wandering improved because you went from +7º caster to around +12º (numbers are estimates).  It's going to be a lot harder on your steering as it takes more effort to turn, the steering has a lot more tendency to return to center than it had before.

Really, don't take any of this personal, but these forums are a learning experience for many and we don't want others to make the mistakes you have.  You'd be surprised how many search engines will lead jeepers here when they search "shackle reversal" and other key words, not to mention the membership here.

Luckily you haven't cut or welded anything that makes going back to the leading shackle setup impossible.  I'd seriously take that SRS off and cut your losses before you hose your steering, ujoints, balljoints, pinion bearings, transfer case bearings, etc.

[jonzjeepyj]

The receiver hitch is only for a basket for the front and rated for only 300-400lbs.  It was an add on to carry my diamond plate box for storage for fishing.  Yes I plan to beef it up and support it a little better.

[Bounty Hunter]

Draw an imaginary line between the spring bolts, nothing looks wrong to you?  The deviation from level is how much you changed your pinion angle and caster angle.

[jonzjeepyj]

On the stock set up there were shackles up front in the equation.  After the SRS was installed they were on the rear of the front spring so there are still in the equation.   Moving a 4" stock shackle from the front of the spring to a 5" arm /shackle to the rear would be a difference of 1" right???