Topic: Welders

[Jeffy]

Since this has come up in a few threads, I thought it should have it's own thread.

What's a good general purpose welder that will be able to do stuff like sheet metal to axles and frames?

The big 6 that everyone seems to use on Jeep forums are the:

Lincoln 140 (replaced the 135) 115v
Lincoln 180 230v
Hobart Handler 140 115v
Hobart Handler 187 230v
Miller Millermatic 140 115v
Miller Millermatic 180 230v

The nice think about the Millermatics is the unlimited adjustments rather then having preset settings for the dials.  Also, the new ones have Auto-Start which allows you to set the metal thickness and the wire used and it will preset the machine to optimum settings for you. (good for beginners.)  I've been told to always go with the 230v machines if you can since they have more power and can do 1/4" on a single pass rather then having to undercut or take multiple passes.  Although the 115v machines are good for on the go.  A few friends keep one in their RV for repairs.

Now this only covers MIG welders.  I have only personally done the old Oxy/Acc torches which was always a PITA.  Then there is TIG.  Never got into TIG although I've only seen it really used for exhausts and aluminum.  The welds seem to be really clean but I've heard it's a lot more difficult then MIG which is pretty easy to learn.

So, what have you.

[aka-justin]

Now lets say I would like to do a Ford 8.8 rear end swap in my YJ, would a mig be suffiecent in my welding needs (welding shock mounts on the axle and frame, and what ever the FAQ's describe)?  Or is Oxy/Acyl the option?  Or is both?

I'm asking as I have no-welding experience and this will be one of my latest learning paths.  BTW, I do plan on practicing and building on small things to build my skills before attacking my driveline  .

[Bounty Hunter]

I run a good 'ol Lincoln buzz box, works great for me.  I used 55% nickel rods to burn the 8.8's tubes to the center chunk.

[oldjeep]

I've got a Hobart 180, which is capable of just about anything that I want to do.  The only time I've had to borrow a larger welder was when I built a rear D60.  Used a Miller 251 for that task rather than making multiple passes with the small welder.

The newer Hobart 187 has more taps than mine, but I've never found myself longing for more granular power adjustment than I can accomplish with the 4 taps and infinite wire speed.

[mrcabinet]

I have a Miller Thunderbolt 225v stick welder that works just fine, but I love using my friend's Millermatic!

[sharpxmen]

i initially bought a Mastercraft MIG/flux (does both) 100amp, can weld ok but anything serious is too small.

Found a brand new chinese made AC/DC TIG/stick Riland 200amp with foot pedal on ebay "best offer" with free shipping, i threw an offer on there not expecting to be accepted but the seller took it - had pre flow, post flow and downslope adjustments, works surprisingly well considering all the bad things i read about the chinese welders. The only thing i don't like is that you're limited to 60Hz for AC, tried some aluminum welding but doesn't look pretty and i'm sure it's mostly my fault. Can weld pretty much anything as far as thickness goes, i used it with good results on mild steel and stainless steel so far.

Now lets say I would like to do a Ford 8.8 rear end swap in my YJ, would a mig be suffiecent in my welding needs (welding shock mounts on the axle and frame, and what ever the FAQ's describe)?  Or is Oxy/Acyl the option?  Or is both?

I'm asking as I have no-welding experience and this will be one of my latest learning paths.  BTW, I do plan on practicing and building on small things to build my skills before attacking my driveline  .

i'm no expert - personally i wouldn't use oxyacetylene on an axle, as a matter of fact i would stay away on using it at all on a vehicle. You could use it to preheat the diff housing in case you want to weld the tubes or anything else on it but that's about it.

[st.chevrolet]

Definitely go with a 230V machine, Miller 180, Hobart 180 (made by Miller), Lincoln 180 are only good for a max of 5/16" steel and 1/4" AL.(spoolgun attachment) in one pass and that's with a duty cycle of 135A @30%. The Miller Passport & Millermatic 211 are good for a max of 3/8" steel & 1/4" AL. and are dual voltage. Anything thicker (1/2" one pass) and you need to step up to the Miller 252, I have the Miller 251 which the 252 replaced awesome machine. If your looking to go with a Tig machine it again depends on what thickness you plan to weld and if you want to weld AL. If you just want to weld steel, stainless and some of their alloys you only need DC, for AL and other alloys you'll want AC/DC. The new Miller Diversion 165A is good for 3/16" Steel or AL (one pass) ,a Miller Dynasty 200A machine is good for a max of 1/4" steel or AL (one pass). I have a Miller Dynasty 300DX AC/DC with the water cooled torch which is good for a max of 3/8" steel or AL. (one pass). Stick with a a good brand, Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc. they all have a good track record and with Tig welders the consumables are a lot easier to come by.

[st.chevrolet]

Now lets say I would like to do a Ford 8.8 rear end swap in my YJ, would a mig be suffiecent in my welding needs (welding shock mounts on the axle and frame, and what ever the FAQ's describe)?  Or is Oxy/Acyl the option?  Or is both?

I'm asking as I have no-welding experience and this will be one of my latest learning paths.  BTW, I do plan on practicing and building on small things to build my skills before attacking my driveline  .

A Mig welder is sufficient for your needs but nothing smaller than a 230v 180 Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc.
Take welding and metal fab. courses before you start modifying your vehicle, it is something you want to be competent at for your own safety as well as others.

[Jeffy]

Definitely go with a 230V machine, Miller 180, Hobart 180 (made by Miller), Lincoln 180 are only good for a max of 5/16" steel and 1/4" AL.(spoolgun attachment) in one pass and that's with a duty cycle of 135A @30%. The Miller Passport & Millermatic 211 are good for a max of 3/8" steel & 1/4" AL. and are dual voltage. Anything thicker (1/2" one pass) and you need to step up to the Miller 252, I have the Miller 251 which the 252 replaced awesome machine. If your looking to go with a Tig machine it again depends on what thickness you plan to weld and if you want to weld AL. If you just want to weld steel, stainless and some of their alloys you only need DC, for AL and other alloys you'll want AC/DC. The new Miller Diversion 165A is good for 3/16" Steel or AL (one pass) ,a Miller Dynasty 200A machine is good for a max of 1/4" steel or AL (one pass). I have a Miller Dynasty 300DX AC/DC with the water cooled torch which is good for a max of 3/8" steel or AL. (one pass). Stick with a a good brand, Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc. they all have a good track record and with Tig welders the consumables are a lot easier to come by.

This concurs with what I've been told.

Hobart is now part of Miller and has been for a while now.  It's their value-line.  IIRC, the differences come down to some little things like metal gears, and it has more adjustments.

A Mig welder is sufficient for your needs but nothing smaller than a 230v 180 Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc.
Take welding and metal fab. courses before you start modifying your vehicle, it is something you want to be competent at for your own safety as well as others.

Stick/Arc welder would also be a good choice as well.  Although, the welds aren't as nice but they are as strong.

[FourbangerYJ]

I am using a Lincoln 135  using .035 flux core. It's my buddies machine on perma loan. He has a bottle for it. I used it once with the bottle but it really cools the weld down. So I just use the flux. I am surprise with as small of a machine how much I am able to do with it. I have run it on 3/16 with success. The disadvantages of flux is the mess it makes. There is a ton of spatter. There are some sprays avail. to help with the spatter clean up.
The advantages of flux are, it burns much hotter, and does not care if the wind is blowing a gale or not. Since there always seems to be a slight breeze or a fair amount of wind (my garage faces the wind) the flux is the best choice. If using a gas mix the wind gets blown away with the slightest breeze, which makes the weld junk!
I also have a Ready Welder II. This is pretty much a spool gun that runs on batteries. You can run many various battery set ups to change the power. With 3 batteries in series you can weld 1/2 inch plate single pass! It will work with a bottle too. It can run .023-.045 wire, either flux or solid depending if you run a bottle.
I bring this with me wheeling. I also run .035 wire in it. This was the first welder I used since going to welding class. It was the only one I had for a few years. It is an amazing machine!

I like the TIG stuff too. I did a bunch of TIG in welding class. But it's pretty slow way to weld. And it takes a LOT of practice to be good at it. Also the fitment of your joints needs to be spot on. To much of a gap and you can easily burn thru. I would love to have a TIG machine but for me a wire feed is best at this time.

I agree with St. Chevrolet with taking a class on welding. It is amazing how fast you pick things up when in class. There a lots of welding techniques that can be learned in class where as learning on your own will take much longer.

[Jeffy]

I am using a Lincoln 135  using .035 flux core. It's my buddies machine on perma loan. He has a bottle for it. I used it once with the bottle but it really cools the weld down. So I just use the flux. I am surprise with as small of a machine how much I am able to do with it. I have run it on 3/16 with success. The disadvantages of flux is the mess it makes. There is a ton of spatter. There are some sprays avail. to help with the spatter clean up.

I agree with St. Chevrolet with taking a class on welding. It is amazing how fast you pick things up when in class. There a lots of welding techniques that can be learned in class where as learning on your own will take much longer.

I was thinking since most wire fed machines come with flux, I'd use that for practice to get back what little I remember.    

I think it really depends on your personality.  Some people can pick it up very easily with little instruction.  Others need a helping hand.  ODTJ's welds are pretty impressive if he's only been at it for 3 weeks.  Same goes for sharpxmen with his cheapo TIG.  Especially on the TIG.

There used to be a good book on welding.  I forget the name of it.  Anyone remember?

[FourbangerYJ]

A few good pointers and a lot of practice goes a long way.

I run the same patterns with the flux as I did with gas. Gas is easier to learn on since the flux is real dirty! It smokes a lot more and the burning flux can make the puddle hard to see if you don't know what your looking at.

The only book I have is on TIG welding. There is a lot of on line books and info on welding, all types of welding.

We have not mentioned welding hoods. I started out with the old school flip and tip. When all thru welding class with it. Then when I got my Ready welder I bought a auto darkening hood made by Jackson. The Ready Welder has a hot tip. So if you touch the tip to your grounded material it will arc! So when I was nodding my head to get the hood down it sometimes would touch the grounded material and arc. Not fun. So the auto darkening one is much better in that respect. Also speeds things up when doing lots of spot welds.

Don't be foolish and tack weld things without your hood on and down. There is lots of TV shows that show the welder just closing his eyes to tack stuff. It's just plain stupid!

[aka-justin]

   Awesome advice!  Thanks!

[chardrc]

we have a Hobart Handler 140 115v, good little mig, use it with shielding gas.. only regret is that its not 230V.  the auto dimming hoods are definitely nice if you can afford it when starting out.

[Jeffy]

We have not mentioned welding hoods. I started out with the old school flip and tip. When all thru welding class with it. Then when I got my Ready welder I bought a auto darkening hood made by Jackson. The Ready Welder has a hot tip. So if you touch the tip to your grounded material it will arc! So when I was nodding my head to get the hood down it sometimes would touch the grounded material and arc. Not fun. So the auto darkening one is much better in that respect. Also speeds things up when doing lots of spot welds.

Don't be foolish and tack weld things without your hood on and down. There is lots of TV shows that show the welder just closing his eyes to tack stuff. It's just plain stupid!

What no, 3 pairs of sunglasses?